Coal for Kodak

a year of so ago we had a story here about how the Kodak coal contract was taken from R&S and given to CSX instead..
but...everytime I drive over the Brooks st. yard on 390, the yard is always jammed with loaded coal hoppers! been tnat way all of this year..
so it seems R&S is still delivering a LOT of coal to Kodak..

but then, about an hour ago I drove across the CSX/Ridge Road crossing near Kodak, and there was a string of loaded coal hoppers, just south of Ridge, lettered for CSX, and sitting on the "CSX side..

so whats going on then?
are both CSX and R&S hauling coal up to Kodak?
or..it is R&S for Kodak coal, and CSX for powerplant coal?
I suppose those CSX hoppers I saw this morning might not have been for Kodak, even though they were sitting right next to the Kodak leads..
anyone know whats going on?!
Scot

Scot
You have come to the right place. In 2003 CSX won the contract for the major coal deliveries away from the R&S/ NS, about 120 or so cars a week. CSX has since I have been with them the past 4 years a contract for what is refered to as "River" coal, which Kodak receives about 80 cars of this evry 2-3 weeks. Starting with '04 , the R&S/NS won back the major coal contract but CSX still has the "river" coal. CSX also won the plupwood contract from the R&S/NS in '03 and continues to service that contract. That's whats in those CN boxcars in Kodak. Hope this answers your question, anything else, I'll try to answer the best I can.

What's the difference between the River coal and the "major" coal?? Different burning / emmissions characteristics?

Is the Kodak youre refering to the Kodak company that deals with photography? If so what do they get coal for?

They use the coal to make film, duh.

-otto-

Ok then thanks for the information. I guess you do learn something new everyday. I didnt know that they used coal to make film.

Well, they do use the coal to make film... indirectly. I was being sarcastic. Kodak has it's own power plant to generate juice for the sprawling manufactuting plant called Kodak Park, located in Rochester, NY.

-otto-

Well thanks for clearing that up. They must take in a lot of juice to need their own power plant.

Just guessing, but could "River" coal refer to Powder River coal from out west? If they were trying to knock emissions maybe they're blending a bit of robust PA/WV good stuff with the lighter PR stuff.

Tom H>

trainfreak wrote:Well thanks for clearing that up. They must take in a lot of juice to need their own power plant.

Actually Kodak Park has 3 large coal-fired power plants. Not only do they generate electricity, they also provide process and building heating steam for the entire facility. ...FB

I have this friend, a very well connected professional photographer. He recently told me that good and informed industry sources say Kodak plans to be out of the film business within five years latest. I mean completely out of the business of making and marketing film. With digital's popularity, this wouldn't surprise me at all.

sween wrote:I have this friend, a very well connected professional photographer. He recently told me that good and informed industry sources say Kodak plans to be out of the film business within five years latest. I mean completely out of the business of making and marketing film. With digital's popularity, this wouldn't surprise me at all.

no way, not gonna happen..
that is a totally untrue rumour..
even with film sales declining as quickly as they are,
Kodak STILL makes 50% of its profit from film,
there is no way they would drop out of that market completely and let all that profit go to Fuji..
There are LOTS of people who are still going to shoot film for decades to come..
the problem is not that the film market is "going away completely"..it isnt.
the problem is that the film market has been shrinking dramaticaly, resulting in much less profit for all the film makers.. but its not going away..
as long as there is still money to made in film, Kodak will still be making it..
And...these huge declines in film use, and rise in digital use, is ONLY happening in the "developed countries" North America and Western Europe..there is still a HUGE and GROWING demand for film in places such as China..
Flm use is global, people in many parts of the world are just now beginning to have the disposable income to afford cheap film cameras, they wont be going digital for decades! the film market is still very very large..just not as large as it was..
Scot

There might be a shred of truth in Kodak doing away with film production- at least in the US. No film made here will compete for consumer-grade use in China; possibly only film made in China. Likewise, if Kodak isn't receiving the profit it wants/needs off film made here- it'll move offshore.

Question would be when economy of scale stops returning value, and just pure cheapness takes over. Have to wonder though- if China's economy continues to explode, how long before the costs rise there too?

Just be thankful film isn't solid steel....prices now would be unbelievable.

ToM H>

scottychaos wrote:

sween wrote:I have this friend, a very well connected professional photographer. He recently told me that good and informed industry sources say Kodak plans to be out of the film business within five years latest. I mean completely out of the business of making and marketing film. With digital's popularity, this wouldn't surprise me at all.

no way, not gonna happen..
that is a totally untrue rumour..
even with film sales declining as quickly as they are,
Kodak STILL makes 50% of its profit from film,
there is no way they would drop out of that market completely and let all that profit go to Fuji..
There are LOTS of people who are still going to shoot film for decades to come..
the problem is not that the film market is "going away completely"..it isnt.
the problem is that the film market has been shrinking dramaticaly, resulting in much less profit for all the film makers.. but its not going away..
as long as there is still money to made in film, Kodak will still be making it..
And...these huge declines in film use, and rise in digital use, is ONLY happening in the "developed countries" North America and Western Europe..there is still a HUGE and GROWING demand for film in places such as China..
Flm use is global, people in many parts of the world are just now beginning to have the disposable income to afford cheap film cameras, they wont be going digital for decades! the film market is still very very large..just not as large as it was..
Scot

Just like Corning Incorperated will never leave the Pyrex and Corellware market and concentrate on technologies with clear market limits.....

oh! well I never said Kodak will keep on making film here in Rochester!
I would not be surprised at all if film production all moved to China..
single-use camera production recently did just that!
im just saying its highly unlikely Kodak will cease ALL film production in the next 5 years..there is still a ton of money to be made..
Kodak can still make plenty of money on film even as demand falls, because they simply scale-back production, close down buildings, and lay off huge amounts of employees who make the film..
lets say film demand falls by 50% in the next 5 years..
well, Kodaks output of film also falls by 50%,
and the number of employees making film falls by 50%..
the amount of profit falls by 50%..
but the profit is still there!
there is still lots of money top be made!
just not as much as before..

If demand for cars fell by 50% would all the car makers stop making cars completely? no, they would just make a lot less of them, make less money, and lay off a ton of employees..
and they would also start making whatever it was thats causing the demand for their traditional product to fall by 50%..
(like Kodak's digital products)
and yes, some makers would likely die out completely.
but..if ANY cars are still being bought at all, someone will still make money building them..
Kodak is still the largest maker of film in the world,
they wont be letting it go anytime soon..
Kodak has been shrinking continously since the mid-80's..
but its still making plenty of money..
its just paying a lot less employees..
50% of past profit levels is still profit.
why give up something if its still making money?
the film market is not drying up, its just shrinking a lot..

well..we are getting a little off topic here!
I will end my part of this discussion by saying that everyone predicted the death of Motion Picture film about 3 or 4 years ago..
digital projectors were supposed to be everywhere by now, and no one would be shooting movies on film anymore..
well, the opposite has happened..
digital projectors arent working out at all, they are very expensive and slow..(need huge amounts of CPU power to digitally project a movie!)
so movie film is alive and well..very healthy, and isnt going anywhere anytime soon!
Scot