• CNE-NH Crew Districts

  • Discussion relating to the NH and its subsidiaries (NYW&B, Union Freight Railroad, Connecticut Company, steamship lines, etc.). up until its 1969 inclusion into the Penn Central merger. This forum is also for the discussion of efforts to preserve former New Haven equipment, artifacts and its history. You may also wish to visit www.nhrhta.org for more information.
Discussion relating to the NH and its subsidiaries (NYW&B, Union Freight Railroad, Connecticut Company, steamship lines, etc.). up until its 1969 inclusion into the Penn Central merger. This forum is also for the discussion of efforts to preserve former New Haven equipment, artifacts and its history. You may also wish to visit www.nhrhta.org for more information.
  by Fishrrman
Tommy Meehan asked:
"Did they still have "CNE men" in the 1940s and 50s? Would they have continued to hire for that roster?"

Sorry for coming into this thread five years' late.

There were "CNE men" right up into the Conrail era. One of the last was Dick Capach, engineer originally out of Maybrook, who was my OJT instructor in freight in 1981. I believe that Tommy May and Johnny May were originally CNE guys from Maybrook terminal, who went in different directions when jobs got cut there.

Interestingly, Dick Capach's dad was a conductor on the O&W, and Dick told me he originally worked there, but if that was true he must have been very young -- perhaps he was a call boy for crew or something along that line.

Noel wrote:
"I don't know if the last CNE man has retired yet or not, he was working for Metro-North"

Dutch mentioned Herman Kaus above, and he was indeed a prior prior right CNE engineman. The last New Haven conductor from the Maybrook area I knew of would be Jimmy Miller, and I'm sure he's retired by now.

Hmmm.... who would be the last engineman ever to hire out in old New Haven Railroad territory to have worked freight in Maybrook Yard?

I believe it to be -ME-.

I hired out with Conrail in New Haven in 1979. Retired from Amtrak in 2012.
But -- in the interim years, I was able to qualify and work out of Campbell Hall at various times from February 1985 until March of 1991.

After I left in '91, I believe a few Conrail District F enginemen worked at Campbell Hall before NS took over, but none who originally hired in New Haven territory.

And of course NS sold the business and it's now M&NJ.

So -- no more guys from prior New Haven territory will work in Maybrook via Campbell Hall again. Even Herman Kaus can't go back.

I think I'm the last one!
  by Engineer Spike
I wonder what happened to CNE crews way back. When the line out of Hartford was cut. For a while the trains ran via Plainville, as Noel said. eventually this was cut. Did these CNE guys have to claim the remaining jobs in Maybrook? How about the stubs that were left? Did CNE have any claim to the local which did the Griffin Branch? How about the locals on the Berkshire, which went to former CNE Lakeville, and did industries on the line in Canaan? Would they get say a brakeman spot on a job, or have it for a few months of the year?
  by Noel Weaver
The old CNE trackage was really not cut all at once but more or less in stages. There wasn't too much left on these tracks at the end. When I was Engine Dispatcher in Waterbury I remember a dispute in Hartford when the only CNE territory remaining was the branch to Griffins and it did not get very much use by the mid to late 1950's. The engineers on the CNE made a stink because Midland Engineers were running on this line but at that time there were no more CNE Engineers remaining in Hartford or anywhere else except for New York State. The railroad finally agreed to give the CNE a middle trick switcher in Hartford to cover for the equity involved. They put the job up for bid for two weeks in a row and nobody bid it in. This job and all the other terminal work in Hartford then remained with the Midland. Canaan - Lakeville was also CNE territory but in this case they allowed for the equity to go between the Western and the CNE rosters and this line was always worked by the local out of Danbury that worked Canaan. Ditto for the lime plant in East Canaan that is still in operation today.
As i may have stated earlier, the New Haven Railroad had way too many train and engine rosters, this did not serve the men nor the company well in any respect, they should have had just one engineer's roster and one trainmen's roster for the whole railroad. It was not enough territory to restrict both the company and the employees well, it took the Penn Central and Conrail to finally accomplish this, too little and too late.
Noel Weaver
  by Engineer Spike
When they cut the CNE between Collinsville, and Griffins, the trains ran via Plainville. How were the jobs worked? Did CNE crews still run them, or did Highland, and Canal crews get some of the action?
  by Noel Weaver
With regard to the last question, here is what I was able to come up with:
Lines West Timetable no. 95 of 9-28-24 all trains ran via Tariffville.
Lines West Timetable no. 98 of 6-14-25 Two round trips between Hartford and Simsbury via Tariffville but the trains to Winsted and beyond were operated Plainville - Pine Meadow and then to the CNE. There were three round trips one to Winsted and two to Millerton and one Millerton and the Winsted trips ran from Plainville with connecting service at Plainville while one Millerton trip ran to and from Hartford via Plainville.
Lines West Timetable no. 101 of 4-25-26 One round trip Plainville - Millerton and one round trip Plainville - Winsted plus one round trip between Hartford and Winsted.
System Timetable no. 106 of 9-25-27 One round trip Winsted and one round trip Millerton both out of Plainville with connections.
System Timetable no. 107 of 4-29-28 All of this service was gone as of this timetable, probably discontinued effective this date as 106 had no supplements.
As for the crews, probably from what I can figure out all trains whether from Hartford, Plainville or whatever had CNE T and E crews all the way. Hartford - Plainville was Highland train crews and Western engine crews Plainville - Pine Meadow had Air Line/Northampton train crews and Shore Line engine crews and finally Pine Meadow - Winsted and beyond was all CNE territory for both T and E crews. From what I can establish from reading the timetables and agreement books that I have I think most likely the trains ran right out of Hartford or Plainville though with CNE train and engine crews. Mileage wise there was only one mile long via Plainville. Hartford - Pine Meadow via Tariffville was 28 miles and via Plainville was 29 miles and I think Plainville was probably a lot easier and faster because you did not involve a reverse move to include the stop at Collinsville.
These old timetables are very interesting to look at and review and I learn something new every time I dig them out.
Noel Weaver
  by Engineer Spike
Thanks, Noel. This aspect is interesting because these types of agreements have impacted me several times.

I have heard the opinion expressed many times, by a former NY Division conductor friend, you know who, Noel, that the NY Division should have gotten some Maybrook work, since the route included New Haven-Devon.
Through the years I heard about the Western Division, from Frank Doyle and Tim Sweeny.
  by Noel Weaver
Western Division territory included Devon to Winsted, Danbury to Pittsfield including the State Line Branch, the Watertown Branch, Derby Junction to I think Fair Grounds including the abandoned branches. Cedar Hill - Maybrook work was split between Western and CNE but the split was different with the engineers and firemen with the firemen the dividing line was Hopewell Junction which meant that the Western fireman had more Maybrook work than the Western engineers had. When I first went firing in January of 1960 I had a choice of Shore Line or Western and of course I took the Shore Line and over my entire I made the river choice even though I was still living in Waterbury which was a major terminal in 1960. During my career I worked various portions of Western and CNE territory, more later.
Noel Weaver
  by Engineer Spike
Shoreline seems to have been a better choice, since it covered a larger territory, and more of the densely trafficked routes.