• Clinton Engine House

  • Discussion relating to the pre-1983 B&M and MEC railroads. For current operations, please see the Pan Am Railways Forum.
Discussion relating to the pre-1983 B&M and MEC railroads. For current operations, please see the Pan Am Railways Forum.

Moderator: MEC407

  by jaymac
 
Pat-
jaymac » Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:54 am
Pat-
...I don't have the other encyclopedic documentation you ask for, so having nothing further to add, I won't.
  by Pat Fahey
 
Hi Jaymac
I have one more thing to add, I have enjoyed this discussion, on the Central Mass, you have been a person to talk and post too, I hope there is no hard feeling on what we have discussed. Once I get on a subject, the same as you, I feel as if I am right either by what I have read, or seen photos of.
Since we started this whole thing over a turntable, that was on the WN&P, I would like to read one more thing. I contacted the B&M Historical Society, I send to email asking the question about the WN&P having a turntable in Clinton, Mass. Rick from the Historical society forwarded my email to Alan LePain who is an attorney on the B&M and the Central Mass. Yes, there was a turntable located off the WN&P, for the Central Mass, but the turntable was only used by the Central Mass and was the only turntable in the area.
Jaymac as I said, I hope they are not any hard feeling, on the subject, maybe someday we will meet, at the club I belong to Waushakum Live Steamers.
WN&P no turntable existed Just Central Mass.jpg
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  by johnhenry
 
OK -I found some proof of where the engine house and turntable were located.
Based on 3 photo's I found of the turntable and related tracks, I looked at an older (1943) topo map of Clinton where I could see that the main yard shown (where Hannaford supermarket is now) does not have the correct "handedness" to match the photos. Also, one of the photos shows the side of the 2 stall enginehouse up against a banking and there are no banking elevation changes around the Hannaford or shown on the map there. But if you look carefully at the top of the piece of map that I attached (I hope it got attached) you will see a stub track with building symbol on the west (north) trackside, with contours showing a banking, a bit north of Clinton center (I would roughly guess right about the MP that Jaymac mentions). To verify, I drove out to Clinton to the west side of the track at that location and sure enough, two houses that are in the background of photos (one showing turntable) are still there on the east side of the track (with their front doors facing Rt 70). A large concrete block warehouse covers the entire area where the turntable/engine-house/related tracks were. Incidentally, this location is about 50 yards west of the current Clinton siding east switch.
  by johnhenry
 
Clinton TT.jpg
Here is map I hope.
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  by Pat Fahey
 
Hi John Henry
Good Job according to the Clinton Historical society the Clinton engine house was located off Adam's road, in the location you just stated, Pat.
  by jaymac
 
johnhenry-
tnx!
  by TrainDetainer
 
Using USGS topo maps as 'proof' for anything RR (other than general presence) is like using a Marvin Martian cartoon as proof of life on Mars.
  by jaymac
 
by TrainDetainer » Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:30 pm
Using USGS topo maps as 'proof' for anything RR (other than general presence) is like using a Marvin Martian cartoon as proof of life on Mars.
As a general -- if perhaps hyperbolic -- observation, I'd agree. Issues of scale, field reporting, and editorial decisions can all combine for sins of omission or commission.
In this particular case, johnhenry's map excerpt shows a small structure along the westerly and then-slope-sided then-EB-main. The p. 60 photo of the engine house in The Central Mass. book shows dwellings that match the structures indicated on the the topo excerpt. johnhenry did a field-confirmation of the distance from Clinton station to the engine house. Pat Fahey also confirmed it, citing the Clinton Historical Society, in his 0811/04-24-2020 post. In sum, that seems a good amount evidence to buttress topo accuracy in this case.
  by b&m 1566
 
The round house was located where the big warehouse is at the end of Adams Rd. I dropped a red pin on the map to mark about where it was located. The round house was on the southwest corner of the turntable. https://www.historicaerials.com/ came through again.
  by jaymac
 
b&m 1566-
tnx!

Is there now enough additional evidence to support the Clinton engine house's having been where various period ETTs stated it was?