China orders 300 locomotives from EMDiesel (265H?)

Electro-Motive Diesel, Inc. Announces Sale of 300 Diesel-Electric Locomotives to Ministry of Railways in China

BEIJING, Sept. 7 /PRNewswire/ -- Representatives from the Ministry of
Railways (MoR), Dalian Locomotive Works (DLoco) and Electro-Motive Diesel,
Inc. (EMD) signed an agreement today for the supply of three hundred 6,000
horsepower locomotives, EMD's most powerful diesel-electric locomotive. The
locomotives feature the latest heavy haul traction systems used on North
America's major Class l railways and are being jointly designed and
manufactured with DLoco under a technology license in Dalian, China.
The MoR has embarked on an extensive program to upgrade the rail system
throughout China, and the application of these highly reliable, high powered
diesel locomotives for mainline operations will enable the MoR to
significantly increase the speed and throughput of its railways.
Mr. John S. Hamilton, President and CEO of EMD noted, "This is a very
important business development for our company. We have worked for many years
in developing the right combination of technology with the ability to localize
manufacturing capability to meet the needs of our partners and customers. We
are confident this is the beginning of a long and fruitful cooperation among
the MoR, DLoco and ourselves, and we will all benefit greatly from this
contract."
Work has already started on the detailed design of the locomotives to make
them applicable for use by the MoR. Teams are also developing the production
plans for the portion of the locomotives that will be manufactured in China.
These efforts will result in the first locomotives being available for testing
in China in the latter half of 2007 with full production running over the
following two years.
The locomotives will be powered by EMD's 16-cylinder 6,000 hp engine, will
use the latest AC traction drive systems and will be capable of meeting USA
EPA Tier 2 emissions regulations, making them some of the most environmentally
friendly locomotives in the world.
Mr. Jerry Greenwald, Chairman of Electro-Motive Diesel, Inc. stated, "We
are very pleased with the award of this important business. This contract is a
very important step in solidifying long-term cooperative relationships in
China. The Chinese locomotive market has terrific opportunities for future
growth and joint development, and we are delighted to be able to participate
in it."

I heard that there was a previous study a few years ago to see if portions of the diesel engine parts production could be sourced in India.

Yeah, because US RRs are really going to buy EMDs made in China.

Not.

Looks like China's gonna be EMD's 'big' new market, and frankly, I doubt they're gonna be THAT big over there.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - EMD's big value is renewal parts for whatever existing locos are out there. As far as new equipment? They're pretty much finished. Like it or not, GE won, and it wasn't because GE's that much better. I suspect sooner or later, you'll see EMD just cease new production altogether - shifting it to China conviently ("Local content requirements!") just makes it that much easier to get past the unions...

Heck, Greenbrier bought a heck of a cashg cow selling parts to service the existing in service fleet. Why bother dumping a few hundred million into the toilet on a new loco design when there's virtually no certain market for one?

I think there going to use the SD90MAC Design from what I hear.

Let's not be foolish about this.

Class 1's do everything they can to cut costs. CSX zealously rips out track. CTC is installed to cut manpower costs in dispatching. Four man crews are cut to three, then two. If EMD says "we've decided to produce our SD70 in China, and it costs 60% of the London, Ont, built product" - you had better believe each and every railroad will be buying chineese EMD's. A CEO has one job - to maximize shareholder value. Not make the trains pretty, not to thrill railfans, not to provide better service. That said, if maximizing shareholder value includes better service, expect to see it. But they won't do anything that doesn't maximize shareholder value.

EMD being in China is really nothing new either, they have had their engines in river towboats there for two decades. Oops, sorry! I forgot, boats are not a politically correct subject for this forum. But if you only look at half of their business activities, you only get half of the story.

Webinfo says: "Everybody wants to save money. Funny how so many people complain about Chinese manufacturing, yet every time I drive past a Walmart, the parking lot is full of people who can't wait to buy all the made-in-China junk they sell."

A-friggin-men... This is the dead truth. We are in a market economy. Just as Dave Goode at NS has to meet his bottom line by buying cheaper locomotives made in China, the average family has a mortgage and two car payments, plus the likelihood of their 2.3 children going to college. Buying a microwave for $120 from China versus a microwave for $300 from America is a no-brainer. It's ignorant to complain about China and India, then go buy something from Walmart that is obviously not made in America.

Good reading on this subject is "The World Is Flat: A Brief History of the 21st Century" by Tom Friedman

China is positioned to be the mega economic factor in the next 20 years or so. They already hold a huge portion of US debt. There are lots of things USA needs to do to stay ahead of the game. Encouraging more science and math study, for one. These fields are becoming more and more dominated by Chinese students.

Wake up, America!

The World Is Flat on Amazon.com

Nasadowsk wrote:Yeah, because US RRs are really going to buy EMDs made in China.

Not.

Why do you think so many recent EMD locomotives were built in Mexico? It's certainly not because they make a higher-quality product there...

If anything, I bet a Chinese-built EMD might just be more reliable than a Mexican EMD!

<i>Everybody wants to save money. Funny how so many people complain about Chinese manufacturing, yet every time I drive past a Walmart, the parking lot is full of people who can't wait to buy all the made-in-China junk they sell.
</i>

I actually DO something about it - I don't shop at Wally World, and on top of that, when I buy stuff? I look where it's made and avoid China if possible. sure it's a bit more, sure it's not politically correct, but I'd rather my money stay here and (surprise!) the quality is better too...

I used to do this on my last job - specing mostly made in the US stuff. Drove my penny pinching %^*&^$%& boss nuts...

I, too, try to buy goods that are made in the U.S. whenever possible. Unfortunately it's getting more and more difficult.

As a general rule, however, I buy things based on which product is the highest quality and the best overall value. Oftentimes that ends up being the foreign-made product. This doesn't mean that U.S. workers make crap; it just means that so damn many of our manufacturing jobs have been sent to other countries, so we have less choices when it comes to buying a product made on our own soil.

My uncle just purchased a Japanese car -- built by American workers in Ohio. He originally planned on purchasing a Chevy, but decided against it when he discovered that it was manufactured in Mexico.

Over the time span of several decades I have watched the Class One railroads turn to the "buy cheapest" policy that dominates the industry now. This has resulted in many of the suppliers trying to source portions of their products from less expensive labor markets. It has also resulted in the elimination of many "commercial" support jobs, like training instructors and technical support positions, in order to cut overhead expenses. This in turn results in a great deal of complaining from the customers when they need technical help and cannot get it (or the phone call gets answered by somebody in India, Pakistan, or China). Of course half the time they call your company, it is an attempt to get you to troubleshoot something they bought from somebody else. It is a pretty sad state of affairs.

LCJ's comments on reading Tommy Friedman's books are right on. Although I am a conservative and Friedman is a liberal, I have much respect for him and believe he is one of the smartest people in America right now. For those that read NY Times, he writes about once a week as their chief columnist and it's usually a very accurate and well written column on economics and foreign policy. As railfans foreign policy and economics plays a large role in the success and failure of our railroads and the changing traffic patterns as well - staying up to date on Friedman's views helps me understand the reasons for change we see every day.

My Toyota Tacoma was built in California, my Ford Focus was built in Mexico; which one is the import?

I've seen this for years with industrial control components. And even Omron, in Japan, farms much of their production out to Malaysia.

Buy American is a great idea, but many times you get fooled. A municipal agency put out bids for a new trackhoe. Komatsu was the lowest bidder, followed by John Deere. Citing "Buy American", Deere got the order. Well, it turns out that the Deere was built in Japan, while the Komatsu was assembled in the USA. Classic OOPS-

La Grange shut down locomotive production years ago, sending that business to London, ON. Mexico is no surprise, either. They apparently did pretty well with the GE Super Seven kits.

It's tough to buy American these days. Anyone have a Kodak 35mm SLR?
An American made TV or VCR? I guess locomotives will be next; look at the new NJT diesels. Assembled here but with lots of overseas content.

EMD locomotives made in China for export? I just know there’s a 'column A or column B' joke in here somewhere but I can't seem to find it. GE can make a locomotive in Erie, PA and still make a buck. So why would EMD need to shift from Canada to the other side of the planet? Not all too sure about that one.

Nasadowsk wrote:Like it or not, GE won...

One thing I can be sure of: so long as there are trains running the EMD vs. GE race is no where near over. EMD took an early lead. Now GE dominates the new locomotive market. What will the standings be in a few years? Stay tuned.

But what I really want to know, is this a precursor to the next round of the 6000 hp locomotive battle? I've heard from those close to the inside that EMD continued development of the 265H during the GM limbo days. GE learned from their HDL experience to develop the 12 cylinder GEVO. Is a 16 cylinder GEVO ES60AC vs. a refined 265H SD90ACe battle looming on the horizon? I certainly hope so; nothing better than a two-fisted bare-knuckled brawl. TOE THE LINE!