Chicago LS&MS commuter service questions

Looking at the digitized Hammond, IN newspapers, they seem to refer to all Vanderbilt controlled lines commuter service into and out of Chicago as "lake Shore" even though some of it operated over the Harbor Belt and Nickel Plate. The paper talked of "loop service" (and they did not mean the elevated loop in Chicago) that went out as far as Gary. Can any of you supply details of this commutation program? Are there public or employee timetables that show these runs (they are not in any Official Guide I've seen) and how was the power and rolling stock apportioned? While LaSalle was the main terminal, were there other fragmented operations? WJPowers

It is pretty hard to find any information about commuter service out of Chicago. The Canada Southern website has pdf files of NYC system employee timetables. The April 30, 1939 Western Division TT for one, shows several locals between Chicago and Chesterton, IN, eastbound in the morning, westbound in the evening. http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/home.htm
The attached picture is from the book Commuter Railroads by Patrick Dorin.

I found a 9/26/1954 NYC Chicago Suburban and I copied it and attached it. The schedules are actually on the same side but I had to split it due to the 500KB size limit. It is Form219 and the printing was 8,000. The 3 p m reserved seat departure was probably the New England States.

That's pretty interesting edbear, many thanks for posting. I have some earlier Chicago suburban schedules (from NYC Western Division employee timetables) which I will scan and post when I have time. By 1954 the service was based primarily out of Chesterton Ind. where Central maintained a small yard and turntable or wye. (If you notice, in your schedule all the local trains originate or terminate there.) I have seen photos from around 1954 showing old J1 class Hudsons running out there last miles on Chesterton-Chicago commuter trains.

What was unique about Central's Chicago commuter service was, it was a two-way operation. On the one hand it carried traditional suburb-to-city office workers and on the other it carried residents from both Chicago and suburbs who worked in Northwestern Indiana steel mills. The steel workers commuted mostly to stations between Robertsdale and Gary. Though this traffic dwindled after WWII, if you notice, on your schedule there are still remnants.

Such as the eastbound all-stops local departing La Salle Street in Chicago at 6:30 am for Chesterton or the all-stops local to Gary departing La Salle at 10:20 pm. On Sundays the 6:30 am train only runs as far as Gary. A westbound all-stops local departs Chesterton at 2:00 pm and terminates at Whiting. There are also all-stops locals out of Chesterton at 10:30 pm and at 11:45 pm. On weekends the 10:30 train only runs as far as South Chicago.

edbear wrote:I found a 9/26/1954 NYC Chicago Suburban and I copied it and attached it. <snip>

Based on some research I did, in Central timetables (both public and employee) and in the Chicago Tribune news archive, that schedule is apparently a historic one. In the weeks after it was issued New York Central finally succeeded in discontinuing all of the trains that originated or terminated at Chesterton Ind. According to the Chicago Tribune (and Central timetables bear this out), effective November 15, 1954 the Chicago suburban service was reduced to just four trains and Chesterton was eliminated as a terminal. Westbound, the combined Nos. 5/89 (Five was a nameless Buffalo-Cleveland train that was combined with Eighty-nine The Forest City west of Cleveland), made stops in the commuter zone and arrived at La Salle Street at 7:15 AM. No. 741, a nameless coach-only local from Elkhart, arrived at 8:05 AM. The eastbound returns were on No. 232 to Toledo at 4:40 PM and No. 10, a nameless Elkhart local, at 5:30 PM. Riders traveling to steel plants between South Chicago and Gary protested but they were out of luck. Most of their service was gone.

This pattern was to continue through the years with minor changes. Eventually, 232 was cut back to Elkhart, 5/89 was replaced by 289 a Toledo-Chicago local, No. 741 became 241 and No. 10 became 210. Ridership fell from around 1,200 riders per day in 1954 to about 500 in the early 1960s. Central asked to drop Nos. 232 and 289 in 1961. No. 289 was discontinued in October 1962 but 232 was ordered to be kept on. The end came on March 31, 1964 when the last three trains, Nos. 241 (in the morning) and 210 and 232 (in the evening) made their last runs.

Btw I mentioned seeing a photo of a J-1 Hudson in Chesterton commuter service, here's a link to a photo taken there in 1954. It shows J-1d class Hudson 5296 laying up on a siding at Chesterton prior to heading back to Chicago.

This wasn't the photo I referenced however. The photo I saw -- also of a Hudson turning at Chesterton -- was in the Morning Sun book Trackside on New York Central's Western Division 1949-1955.

The NYC commuters lasted into the 60's, the NKP suburban service gone by 1920. Physically running right between them was the MC, what did they have, and for how long?

Tommy Meehan wrote:That schedule [September 26, 1954] is apparently a historic one. In the weeks after it was issued New York Central finally succeeded in discontinuing all of the trains that originated or terminated at Chesterton Ind. According to the Chicago Tribune (and Central timetables bear this out), effective November 15, 1954 the Chicago suburban service was reduced to just four trains and Chesterton was eliminated as a terminal.

I found a scan of the slimmed down November 15, 1954 schedule of Central's Chicago suburban service right here on Railroad Net! In a thread from last January. Below is a link to the timetable scan.

Otto Vondrak wrote: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ottomatic7 ... 2001651610" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

-otto-

Tommy Meehan wrote:I found a scan of the slimmed down November 15, 1954 schedule of Central's Chicago suburban service right here on Railroad Net! In a thread from last January. Below is a link to the timetable scan.

Otto Vondrak wrote: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ottomatic7 ... 2001651610" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

-otto-

I was just going to provide that link. Thanks for sharing. Attached is a scan of a 1949 issue from my collection.
I will say that the Chicago commuter timetables are almost as rare as the Adirondack Div. commuter timetables. I have only found a handful of each over the years.

-otto-

Below is an article from the Chicago Tribune reporting the final runs of the Central's Chicago commuter service on Tuesday March 31 1964. And it was the end. Following the removal of Trains 210, 232 and 241 none of the local stations such as South Chicago, Whiting and Chesterton had any service at all. Only Gary retained service and most trains did not carry local riders between Gary and La Salle Street.



I was interested to read comments a few years ago by Jerry Pinkepank who, in the mid-1960s, was employed by Central in Chicago as a legal counsel in the road's La Salle Street offices. Mr. Pinkepank wrote that one of the people in his office, a woman, had commuted between her South Chicago home and La Salle Street on Central's commuter trains. She used her pass and traveled without cost. After the end of service she had to start using Illinois Central's South Chicago Branch which was much less convenient (IC trains used the Randolph Street Terminal clear across town from La Salle), and of course she had to pay. Mr. Pinkepank said she was very put out by it!

Tommy, it's amazing how small some peoples' worlds are. Comparing IC versus NYC service from South Chicago - IC ran electric trains with almost rapid transit-like frequencies, compared to NYC's handful of daily trains. The flexibility difference is night and day in favor of those riding IC. Further, walking from IC Van Buren to Roosevelt is like five minutes - not exactly a hardship, and today the only reality for the 40,000 Metra Electric riders who have to walk more than a few blocks from their respective terminal. Same goes for all the bankers and beancounters that ride in on BNSF, UP W/NW/N, and MILW N/W lines. THey have to walk to the financial district from CUS and CPT and that's much farther than Randolph Street Terminal (but again 15 minutes max, not that bad...)

Tommy Meehan wrote:Below is an article from the Chicago Tribune reporting the final runs of the Central's Chicago commuter service on Tuesday March 31 1964. And it was the end. Following the removal of Trains 210, 232 and 241 none of the local stations such as South Chicago, Whiting and Chesterton had any service at all. Only Gary retained service and most trains did not carry local riders between Gary and La Salle Street.

I thought the trains stopped in 1954 not 1964. This is new information for me, now I have to wonder if the timetable for the commuter run was printed in a separate folder or was just included in one of the other forms?

-otto-

Tadman wrote:Tommy, it's amazing how small some peoples' worlds are. Comparing IC versus NYC service from South Chicago - IC ran electric trains with almost rapid transit-like frequencies, compared to NYC's handful of daily trains.

Just to go back to this, the New York Central legal staffer who was upset when Central canned its South Chicago suburban service.

First of all, when NYC was running the service she rode for free. Given the Central's reputation for frugal salaries that was probably considered a benefit: a free commute. And if she was late for work because the train was delayed...that was her employer's fault not hers!

Second, the NYC's Western Division offices were in La Salle Street, in the office building above the station. Once this woman got on the train in South Chicago she was out of the elements. Given the Chicago region's reputation for extreme weather I'm sure there were many mornings when that was highly appreciated. That can be a pretty cold walk from Van Buren. I've done it. (I even froze one afternoon in July at the Taste of Chicago event! If you've never felt that wind coming in off the lake even on a summer day don't laugh. I can just imagine what it's like in February.)

Finally, maybe she lived much closer to the Central station in South Chicago than to the IC terminal. And she didn't need all-day service running with rapid transit-like frequency. Just one train in the morning that would get her to work on time. In fact commuting via Central's meager service might've been a blessing. When they needed someone to work late she might have been able to beg off: I'll miss my train!

Fwiw, Jerry Pinkepank (who told this story) also commuted to his La Salle Street office but he did it via CTA. The Brown Line I think.

Just a minor point on the subject of a late train: if you worked for the PRR and your train was late they told you to take an earlier train.

In the case of people working in the NYC's Western Division offices at La Salle Street when Jerry Pinkpanke worked there...there was no earlier train!