• Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2018

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

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  by umtrr-author
 
OK, now I'm more confused than ever. Help...

I recall reading that in other cases, more in the Midwest and Plains States, that once railroads were officially abandoned and torn up, farmers adjacent to the right-of-way would as immediately as possible plow under the roadbed in order to absolutely prevent any chance of rebuilding. Or use as a trail. Or anything else.

Could that not happen with the right-of-way here given "reversion"? Or is this just for the easements? Or does this not apply at all and should I go back to sleep?
  by BR&P
 
George, a few observations which may or may not be helpful.

1. Railroads acquired land in several different ways - outright purchase, easements, grants, leases, and probably several other variations.

2. Laws regarding what happens after abandonment likely vary widely among the various states, and it's quite possible the feds and the counties also have some involvement depending on where you are and the factors in item 1.

3. It can often take more than one case, lawsuit, appeal or ruling before the final answer is determined.

3. Regardless of what the law SAYS someone may do, it is easier to ask forgiveness than permission. What actually happens in real life may or may not have any similarity to what the law has said is allowed to happen.

There - aren't you glad I cleared that up for you? :wink:
  by lvrr325
 
This is going to be a long expensive fight to determine who owns the ROW. The county will probably fight every step of the way. It may help to research over on the U&D side and see what comes up there; presumably all parts of the line built under the same charter would use similar means to gain the use of the land. May also be worth looking at long abandoned lines, just looking through the property records and comparing to the former ROW to see how the ownership transferred.

I wouldn't stir the pot with the county in any way from the railroad's side until it's known for sure if the county even owns the property. If it turns out they don't, then they could sue for lease payments back or whatever is legally allowable.
  by BandA
 
Perhaps CMRR owns parts of the track through adverse possession during the 25 year lease when the county knew (or should have known) that it didn't own the track. I assume (going out on a limb here) that the county can't take private property by adverse possession.
  by eehiv
 
Week of July 16 to 20

The week of July 16 to 20, Earl Pardini and Bryan Van Kirk installed more rail at the Dog crossing and spiked all ties installed to date. They were helped by Raphael DeMeglio, Russell Hallock, Ryan Lennox and John Marino.


July 21, 2018

On July 21st, the PEACE TRAIN ran in Kingston. Brian Van Kirk, was engineer, Karl Wick was conductor, Art Vogel was brakeman, Fred Ehren and Martin Elbrecht were flagmen. Marcia Roosa was in the ticket booth.

In the morning, Earl Pardini, John Marino, Russ Hallock, Martin Elbrecht and Tom Whyte worked on the Dog Crossing, reinstalling the crossing. See attached photos.

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=245064" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=245065" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Same view 12 years ago:

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=77845" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We should be running the train to MP 6.55 soon once ballasting and tamping is complete.


Ernie Hunt
Staff/Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR
  by umtrr-author
 
BR&P wrote:George, a few observations which may or may not be helpful...

There - aren't you glad I cleared that up for you? :wink:
Sure! :) Meanwhile, there's this from Indiana...

https://www.ibj.com/articles/69511-prop ... mpensation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
  by cjvrr
 
lvrr325 wrote:Somebody needs to get one of those firms involved here to sue the county.
From the article;

"Both firms say they work on a contingency basis; they’ll get paid only if the cases are successful. If a case is successful, the federal government also reimburses landowners for legal fees.

Oberg said the federal government has generally stopped fighting rails-to-trails cases, opting to just settle with landowners, meaning cases are almost always successful for the law firms that take them on.

He cautions landowners that if they're looking to stop the trail from moving forward, joining a claim won’t help, he said."

So it is purely a money grab by the lawyers. They get the federal government (our tax money) to pay the legal fees. And since the government settles, this is a homerun for any law firm that takes it on. It isn't about the trail or compensation to the property owners, its about the paychecks at the law firm.
  by airman00
 
BandA wrote:Maybe the CMRR can get the landowners to give them new railroad easements on reasonable terms.
Yes I agree with that! IF and that’s a big IF the actual land the ROW sits on is now fair game because the easements reverted once the line was abandoned, then the CMRR should jump on this ASAP!! Then with a legal binding agreement between them and a landowner they will have something that will stand up in court against the county machine.
  by eehiv
 
July 25, 2018

Bryan VanKirk and Earl Pardini installed two more rails at the Dog Crossing.


July 28, 2018

On July 28th, the PEACE TRAIN ran in Kingston. Tom Whyte was engineer, John Marino was conductor, Art Vogel was brakeman, Steve Stanton and Martin Elbrecht were flagmen. Marcia Roosa was in the ticket booth.


Ernie Hunt
Staff/Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR
  by eehiv
 
Week of August 1, 3

On August 1 and 3, Earl Pardini and Bryan Van Kirk installed more rail at the Dog crossing and spiked all ties installed to date. Only 3 rails remain to be reinstalled.

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=245254" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



August 4, 2018

On August 4th, the GREAT TRAIN ROBBERY ran in Kingston. Brian Van Kirk, was engineer, Karl Wick was conductor, Art Vogel was brakeman, Russ Hallock and Martin Elbrecht were flagmen, with Ken Harris flagman trainee. Marcia Roosa was in the ticket booth with Peter Fluchere.


Ernie Hunt
Staff/Volunteer Coordinator
CMRR
  by BR&P
 
I have to say Ernie's weekly updates are a good thing to do. They keep the place in our minds as a going, active concern, they document for everyone that improvements ARE being made, and they give a pat on the back to the volunteers who do the work. The smiles on this site are not worth beans, but if they had a "thumbs up" I'd give two.
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