Canada May Sell Part of VIA Rail

Canada May Sell Part of VIA Rail, Cut Routes as Costs Rise, Documents Show

Looks like it's not just Amtrak in trouble anymore:

Canada may sell part of VIA Rail or cut service provided by the money-losing passenger-rail company as the government looks to pare spending, documents show.

The transport ministry is “assessing several options for future support for passenger-rail services,” including “significant reductions” in service and privatizing part of the network, according to a briefing note prepared for Transport Minister Denis Lebel, which was obtained by Bloomberg News under Canada’s freedom-of-information law.

Since the Conservatives are in power in Canada, they're coming up with the same stupid ideas the Republicans have here. So, who exactly is going to buy a money-losing operation? Maybe, they'll do a United Kingdom thing and "franchise" the trains to private operations and then subsidize the private operators. Maybe Mitt Romney will buy the lines and fire everybody.

CHTT1 wrote:Since the Conservatives are in power in Canada, they're coming up with the same stupid ideas the Republicans have here. So, who exactly is going to buy a money-losing operation? Maybe, they'll do a United Kingdom thing and "franchise" the trains to private operations and then subsidize the private operators. Maybe Mitt Romney will buy the lines and fire everybody.

Well I guess there goes my vote for the Conservatives!!!! What a waste...
Hello!!!... Come on Liberals or NDP. I will be voting for either one of you, know more Conservatives votes from me!!!

CHTT1 wrote:Since the Conservatives are in power in Canada, they're coming up with the same stupid ideas the Republicans have here. So, who exactly is going to buy a money-losing operation? Maybe, they'll do a United Kingdom thing and "franchise" the trains to private operations and then subsidize the private operators. Maybe Mitt Romney will buy the lines and fire everybody.

I agree with you. This privatization of Via Rail Canada's system lead nowhere.
All it will do is they will keep the Quebec-Windsor Corridor and suppress all
deficit rail lines across Canada.

Via Rail Canada's trains sharing their passage with Canadian National and Canadian
Pacific's and short lines freight trains companies.

The unprofitable rails lines will be suppress it's Toronto-Winnipeg-Saskatoon-Edmonton-
Jasper-Vancouver,Jasper-Prince Rupert,Victoria-Courtenay,Winnipeg-The Pas-Pukatawagan-Churchill,
Sudbury-White River,Montreal-Jonquiere,Montreal-Senneterre,Montreal-Gaspe,Montreal-Halifax.

And Stephen Harper's conservative government is going to sound the knell of passenger trains in Canada regrettably.
On the contrary, he should keep it because that be a part of our history the train and it is thanks to him
that we have a properous and modern country at present well before the coming of the automobile and the plane.

I wonder if this would affect the ONR, Algoma Central & Tshiuetin services.

I thought the sole reason for operating the rural services was to offer a transportation means in rural Canada where they are inaccessible by road. Much of the Sudbury-White River route is through the Cambrian Shield. Much of the service of le Canadien (between Winnipeg & Capreol) is through the Cambrian Shield as well. I would argue the remoteness of the routes between Senneterre-Jonquière to Hervey Jct, Churchill though to Le Pas, and Jasper through to Prince Rupert.

Now before everyone gets their knickers in a twist:

http://www.thespec.com/news/canada/arti ... ttawa-says

"The federal government is denying a published report that it is thinking about selling Via Rail.
A spokesman for Transport Minister Denis Lebel says privatizing the passenger rail service isn't on the table.
Pierre Florea, Lebel's press secretary, says all government spending is under review, but there are no plans to sell Via Rail."

These documents for discussion surface every few years.......Even the very pro-VIA, Transport Minister David Collenette looked at privatization when the Liberals were in power 10 years ago and nothing happened then either.

NS VIA FAN wrote:Now before everyone gets their knickers in a twist:

http://www.thespec.com/news/canada/arti ... ttawa-says

"The federal government is denying a published report that it is thinking about selling Via Rail.
A spokesman for Transport Minister Denis Lebel says privatizing the passenger rail service isn't on the table.
Pierre Florea, Lebel's press secretary, says all government spending is under review, but there are no plans to sell Via Rail."

These documents for discussion surface every few years.......Even the very pro-VIA, Transport Minister David Collenette looked at privatization when the Liberals were in power 10 years ago and nothing happened then either.

I don't believe the spokesman of the Transport Minister Denis Lebel when he said that his government isn't on the table for the moment and when he says Harper are no plans to sell Via Rail. I'm sorry I don't believe him at all. He said that just because to reassure taxpayers and users and especially railfans of Via Rail Canada's to say that it is false that and that the Harper government has no plans to privatize Via Rail and it never will.

gaspeamtrak wrote:

CHTT1 wrote:Since the Conservatives are in power in Canada, they're coming up with the same stupid ideas the Republicans have here. So, who exactly is going to buy a money-losing operation? Maybe, they'll do a United Kingdom thing and "franchise" the trains to private operations and then subsidize the private operators. Maybe Mitt Romney will buy the lines and fire everybody.

Well I guess there goes my vote for the Conservatives!!!! What a waste...
Hello!!!... Come on Liberals or NDP. I will be voting for either one of you, know more Conservatives votes from me!!!

Conservative have done almost nothing right since they got the power. May 2nd 2011 was Canada's downfall IMHO. There is a few things here and there that got better since they got in power, but overall, if only we could forget the scandal the Liberals got into 8 years ago, I think they were doing a better job. Then again... If part of VIA DOES get privatised, I just hope prices won't raise... too much. But like the document said. It's less likely to get sold, thanks to the fact that almost no tracks VIA uses is owned by them.


But in all honesty, I hardly beleive the ridership dropped so much. It seems to me that everytime I take the train, there are more people everytime.

For example: The Montreal-Senneterre train, albeit a very small train (It usually only has 1 coach car, and during high season, 2, and on very rare occasion 3, but never more than 3) And every time I took it, it was, at the very least, half-full, from Shawinigan to Weymont

Same for the Ocean, there was one time (on low season ) Where the train was full (well, at least the Economy class was) and a few people had to take place (and their stuff) in the lounge car. In fact, I've never seen this train ''below'' half-full anywhere between Charny and Halifax (I Swear, taking the train ANYWHERE after Montreal is a bad Idea, it's almost always full!)

The Quebec-Montreal train was full (or had very few empty seats left) on both occasion when I took it. (and one of these trip was the one where the TRain leaves at 5:30 AM)

The Montreal-Otawa, however, was the exception. I took it from Montreal to Alexandria, took a return trip a few hours after and in both ocasions, the train was fairly empty...

Ottawa denies Via Rail up for sale:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/201 ... eport.html

You guys have to drink a Molson and chill out.

We did a little math over in the Amtrak forum and realized that despite the conservative (Republican) rhetoric, most big railcar orders came under conservative presidents and most big cuts came under liberal presidents. Words don't cut trains, actions do. During election time, all politicians will tilt a bit radical in their words to excite their entire voting base and ensure the fringe comes out to vote.

Tadman wrote:You guys have to drink a Molson and chill out.

We did a little math over in the Amtrak forum and realized that despite the conservative (Republican) rhetoric, most big railcar orders came under conservative presidents and most big cuts came under liberal presidents. Words don't cut trains, actions do. During election time, all politicians will tilt a bit radical in their words to excite their entire voting base and ensure the fringe comes out to vote.

Not the same situation here in Canada

- The election was in May, the budget cuts are going to happen to the extent the government thinks it can get away with. The next election is in 2015.
- VIA's history of ups and downs, here is a list by Prime Minister, with party in brackets: L for Liberal, and C for Conservative/Progressive Conservative:
Trudeau (L)
VIA spun off from CN, takes over CP's passenger service
Clark (C)
Not in office long enough to do anything
Trudeau (again) (L)
VIA's budget and services cut
LRC purchase
Turner (L)
Not in office long enough to do anything
Mulroney (C)
Service cuts reversed
New equipment purchased, most notably F40s
Service cut again, Canadian rerouted
Campbell (C)
Not in office long enough to do anything
Chrétien (L)
More service cuts
Renaissance purchase
P42 purchase
VIAFast quasi-highspeed service planned
Martin (L)
VIAFast cancelled
Harper (C)
F40, LRC and RDC rebuilds
Track and station upgrades
Potential cuts

I can't see why anyone was surprised.

CHTT1 wrote:Since the Conservatives are in power in Canada, they're coming up with the same stupid ideas the Republicans have here. So, who exactly is going to buy a money-losing operation? Maybe, they'll do a United Kingdom thing and "franchise" the trains to private operations and then subsidize the private operators. Maybe Mitt Romney will buy the lines and fire everybody.

Conservative canada is centerist usa, keep that in mind.

Harper won a majority, and as long as he has the confidence of his own party, his government can pretty much do whatever they want to do. That's the parliamentary system. Overall, the Canadian economy is benefiting from high oil prices, but especially Alberta and the Newfoundland and Labrador. Canada has been spared from the sort of budget and economic issues that are effecting much of the world. Canada is in a state of relative prosperity.

I remains to be seen what policies Harper enacts in regard to VIA Rail, although it is clear that VIA isn't in the same position as Amtrak in the United States as far as ridership trends. Actually, there are very few parallels between the two publicly subsidized passenger rail networks. Canada will most likely support a number of accommodation services in isolate rural areas, no matter what party is in power. That doesn't imply that there aren't other thorny issues. Compare the so-called Quebec-Windsor corridor, and it's clear that VIA Rail's core operation isn't a much a single corridor, as a number of connecting services. At its core, I think there is a viable service corridor between Montreal and Toronto along the nicely maintained CN mainline, although the need to divide service between the mainline and the diversion to Ottawa presents a challenge, especially when you consider that one leg of the Ottawa route only continues in service for the sake of that passenger service - maintaining corridor service to Ottawa can't be cheap for VIA.

Personally, I think a private operator could run a service between Montreal and Toronto without government subsidies, if you left Ottawa out of the equation.

I highly doubt their will be any cuts along the corridor, too many important ridings. If there are service cuts, here's what I think is at risk:

Montreal-Gaspe: Service suspended, little use except for peak season, not remote
Jasper-Prince Rupert: mostly tourist service, stop in Prince George prevents it from becoming useful service to local community, not remote
Victoria-Courtenay: Service suspended, expensive track work needed, not remote

It's possible VIA will start using RDCs on the northern Quebec services, it would mean they could stop renting those F59s and wouldn't have to worry about the broken turntable at Jonquière

If VIA threatens to cut the Canadian, they are using the Musical Ride tactic developed by the RCMP: try to cancel your flagship service and the public outcry may get you some extra money.

bitf wrote: ...
Mulroney (C)
Service cuts reversed
New equipment purchased, most notably F40s
Service cut again, Canadian rerouted
...
Chrétien (L)
More service cuts
Renaissance purchase
P42 purchase
VIAFast quasi-highspeed service planned
...

I would like to elaborate a bit on this posting. Mulroney cut VIA service by 50% and caused over 3,000 staff to be laid off. This was the most savage attack on passenger rail in the history of our Dominion. In the early days of the Mulroney government there was a promise to re-equip the transcontinental service with Amtrak-style Superliners. For a variety of reasons this plan was abandoned. When the transcontinental trains between Winnipeg and Vancouver were cut from 14 per week in each direction to three, the Tories did fund the HEP rebuild programme for the Budd equipment and even bought some 1940s and 50s third-hand stainless steel equipment from the US to use in the corridor and the eastern long-distance trains.

Regarding the Chretien era, I don't recall service reductions - with one partial exception. Although the tri-weekly Atlantic (through Maine) was discontinued, the Ocean was increased to six times a week so service remained the same between Montreal and Moncton and Halifax. As I recall it was not a government decision to eliminate the route of the Atlantic; it was the uncertainty surrounding the decision of the CPR to sell that trackage. Indeed, the new owners removed the ABS signalling system and have downgraded the track to low speed, so it is unlikely the Atlantic could ever be resurrected. There were budget cuts until the passenger-rail-friendly David Collenette was appointed Minister of Transport. Despite the earlier budget cuts, service actually increased on some routes such as Montreal-Quebec, Montreal-Ottawa, Toronto-Ottawa. The overnight Cavalier on the Toronto-Montreal route was restored as the Enterprise. It was an experiment which sadly failed and was discontinued after five years and (I think) eight months. I rode it at least 20 times and the passenger loads were usually light, although they were better on the days when a connection with the Canadian was made.