Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

  • 93 posts
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 7
  by Head-end View
 
A few weeks ago riding the Flushing Line I thought I saw one train with a full-width cab on the Flushing end of the train. Now I've heard rumors that the cars and cabs on that line are to be reconfigured in the near future as follows. One single unit sandwiched between two five-car sets with the Flushing end cabs converted to full-width. BUT, the cabs of the 5-car sets, butting up against the single unit to be corner-cabs.

Anybody know if this is really happening? If so better get your Flushing-bound window rides done soon while we still can. "Cause the only other front-window ride left in NYC is the R-32's for as long as that lasts.
  by R36 Combine Coach
 
Many of the single units (1901-2155) are now coupled in consecutive order in 5-car sets, indicating that they might be linked soon.
  by Head-end View
 
Good news...........apparently the conversions are not proceeding that quickly, at least not yet. I rode the 7-line today and every train I saw still had the corner-cab on the Flushing end. So front-window viewing is safe at least for a while..........
  by Patrick Boylan
 
You mention only the Flushing end.
Was there something different on the trains' other ends, or did you just not notice?
  by lirr42
 
Patrick Boylan wrote:You mention only the Flushing end.
Was there something different on the trains' other ends, or did you just not notice?
There is a full-width cab on the Manhattan end, thus obscuring the view.

The (7) line is unique in the fact that it uses 11 car trains, while most other lines run nicer multiples of 8 or 10.

Nowadays most NYCT cars come in sets of 4 or 5, and they use combinations of those sets to make the desired trains. The R62's that the (7) train uses also comes in the 1 car set variety, thus allowing the much needed 11th car.

In the R62's the 5 car sets have full with cabs on the first and fifth cars that don't let you see out.
The 1 car sets have quarter-cabs in the corner, allowing you to see out the window.

So the topic of discussion here is the rearranging of the sets in the equipment manipulation.

They are changing the sets from this:

KEY:
] - full width cab, can't see out
) - quarter cab, can see out
| - no cab, a trailer car if you will

Current sets:
TIMES SQUARE [1car|2car|3car|4car|5car][6car|7car|8car|9car|10car](11car) FLUSHING

Planned sets:
TIMES SQUARE [1car|2car|3car|4car|5car](6car)[7car|8car|9car|10car|11car] FLUSHING


The planned set would sandwich the 1 car set between the two 5 car sets, thus giving you the dreaded bracket symbol at both ends of the train, obscuring the view. Now for a frowny face: :-(
  by Passenger
 
Preparing for OPTO on the #7?
  by lirr42
 
Passenger wrote:Preparing for OPTO on the #7?
The R62/A cars cannot do CBTC, so this is not for OPTO.

CBTC/OPTO will use the new R188 or R142/A conversions when they eventually come into service. The R62/A's do not have the systems, technologies, bells, or whistles for CBTC, so OPTO is still a ways off.
  by Head-end View
 
Very good description, lirr42. Yes, the Flushing Line is unique in its 11-car configurations using a combination of 5-car "linked" sets and "single units". BTW, I think OPTO might already be in effect on short late-night trains. It only means "one person train operation", and I don't think it requires CBTC. That's a separate deal.

Some historical trivia: The present configuration using the corner-cab car facing Flushing has been since 2004. For a few years before that it was the other way around with the corner-cab on the Manhattan end of the train and a full-cab on the Flushing end. Never knew why they changed it.

Also re: the entire R-62/62A fleet. These were all orignally built in the 1980's as "single units" with an operator's cab at each end. At least one if not both were "convertible" to full-width. In the 1990's I believe the TA started setting them up in "linked" sets of 5 cars-each, with a full-width cab on each end of the 5-car sets. I remember they also removed the operating controls from the 3 middle cars in each set of 5. I believe this was for operating efficiency and to cut maintenance costs and for eventual OPTO. I think they run some 5-car OPTO trains during late nights instead of the ususal 10 cars.
  by railfan365
 
Head-end View wrote:Very good description, lirr42. Yes, the Flushing Line is unique in its 11-car configurations using a combination of 5-car "linked" sets and "single units". BTW, I think OPTO might already be in effect on short late-night trains. It only means "one person train operation", and I don't think it requires CBTC. That's a separate deal.

Some historical trivia: The present configuration using the corner-cab car facing Flushing has been since 2004. For a few years before that it was the other way around with the corner-cab on the Manhattan end of the train and a full-cab on the Flushing end. Never knew why they changed it.

Also re: the entire R-62/62A fleet. These were all orignally built in the 1980's as "single units" with an operator's cab at each end. At least one if not both were "convertible" to full-width. In the 1990's I believe the TA started setting them up in "linked" sets of 5 cars-each, with a full-width cab on each end of the 5-car sets. I remember they also removed the operating controls from the 3 middle cars in each set of 5. I believe this was for operating efficiency and to cut maintenance costs and for eventual OPTO. I think they run some 5-car OPTO trains during late nights instead of the ususal 10 cars.
Mostly, you're right with this bi tof history. To fill in, just a little bit better - the R-62's caome on line line 1984-1988 as single units. Each car had an automatic coupler and a fully operational corner cab at each end, and a full set of operating equipment underneath. During 1998 - 2000, MOST were converted to five car sets. Each outside end was converted to a wide cab, the 8 intermediate cabs each had conductor and driving controls disabled or disasmbled. and each 5 car group has an automatic coupler at each end, but permanent link bars at the four intermediate car junctures. They also had air compressors and emergency powerr setups reduced from one of each in every car to 3 for each 5 car set. This was all done to reduce mantenance costs, although OPTO is now possible on these trains.

Although conversion of some narrow cabs to wide cabs required too work in the shops, the car design did provide it being easier than in ealrier models.
  by R36 Combine Coach
 
The (4) R62s were the first to be linked in 1991. The 1 and 6 R62As followed in 1998-99, with the (3) cars remaining as single units (as the 3 still ran 9 cars and also since these were shared with the 42 Street Shuttle). These remaining single units (1901-2155) are mostly on the 7, with a small number in captive shuttle service.

Although rare, it is possible to have a narrow cab view on the southbound 7. This ride was on 1651 with its cab "folded down".

While on the topic of single units and linked sets, back in the R33/R36 era, it was common to have the single unit R33 WF "sandwiched" between a group of R36 pairs, usually as the third car from the north end.
  by railfan365
 
R36 Combine Coach wrote:The (4) R62s were the first to be linked in 1991. The 1 and 6 R62As followed in 1998-99, with the (3) cars remaining as single units (as the 3 still ran 9 cars and also since these were shared with the 42 Street Shuttle). These remaining single units (1901-2155) are mostly on the 7, with a small number in captive shuttle service.

Although rare, it is possible to have a narrow cab view on the southbound 7. This ride was on 1651 with its cab "folded down".

While on the topic of single units and linked sets, back in the R33/R36 era, it was common to have the single unit R33 WF "sandwiched" between a group of R36 pairs, usually as the third car from the north end.
It's mixed. I've been seeing (3) trains consisting of two five car sets.
  by R36 Combine Coach
 
railfan365 wrote:
R36 Combine Coach wrote:The (4) R62s were the first to be linked in 1991. The 1 and 6 R62As followed in 1998-99, with the (3) cars remaining as single units (as the 3 still ran 9 cars and also since these were shared with the 42 Street Shuttle). These remaining single units (1901-2155) are mostly on the 7, with a small number in captive shuttle service.

Although rare, it is possible to have a narrow cab view on the southbound 7. This ride was on 1651 with its cab "folded down".

While on the topic of single units and linked sets, back in the R33/R36 era, it was common to have the single unit R33 WF "sandwiched" between a group of R36 pairs, usually as the third car from the north end.
It's mixed. I've been seeing (3) trains consisting of two five car sets.
If you're referring to the present day, the (3) now uses ex-4 Kawasaki R62s, which as mentioned above were first to be linked. The ex-3 single units are now on the 7 (with some on the shuttle).
  by railfan365
 
Thanks for the update Combine. Actually, all that I've seen on the (3) for osme time now has been 5 car linked sets - but I wasn't sure if all of the isngle units had been transferred to other routes.

Directly on topic: this explains why I saw a train or two, about a month ago, that had 2 linked sets, although one of the linked sets on each of those trains had narrow cabs only.
  by Head-end View
 
Apparently this program to convert to full-cabs on the Flushing end is not proceeding very rapidly if at all, I'm happy to see. I rode the line today and enjoyed the front window of car 2075. I visually checked about a dozen other trains for any conversions. I think one might have had a full-cab on the Flushing end unless my eyes were playing tricks. Didn't catch the lead car number but all the other cars in the consist were 1600-1700 series. So it looks like we're safe for a while. Maybe we'll get lucky and the program will fall by the "wayside" and never get implemented.
  by Kamen Rider
 
unfortunitly, the program MUST be implemented by the time the R188 order is completed, The Corona's 62s are going back to the mainline IRT to replace the cars getting the CBTC upgrade and I don't think the mainline shop crews and train crews are in the mood to deal with them in thier present configuration
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 7