• Buffalo & Pittsburgh Railroad (BPRR) Discussion

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

  • 112 posts
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  by SST
 
One more Picture. This was taken about 2 weeks ago from Holimont ski resort in Ellicottville. Nice day and good view. The ROW really sticks out.

Image
  by ctclark1
 
SST wrote:When I'd go out to East Aurora, I'd usually take Rt 400 to Maple Rd so I would drive along the ex-PRR and pass Gravity to check out the signals. They were usually on in both directions. A few years ago, I'd get off at Maple and make a left turn onto W. Blood Rd. At the crossing, I "discovered" a set of signals there and they were almost always lit. This became a repeated route I'd travel on. It is at MP 15s. But the sad thing is, late last Fall, I drove by it, and it was dark. As I drove home on the 400, I saw a MOW crew at Gravity. I thought maybe it was a repair or something. But each time I crossed the W. Blood crossing since then, the light have been dark. I assumed that night was actually a signal replacement in progress. Here are several pictures of both Gravity and W. Blood Rd.
<snip>
Anybody have a good guess as to when these older signals were installed? Sad to see the W. Blood Rd signal go dark. Always loved watching it as I crossed.
Seeing as they were the original Pennsy Position Light signals, they're quite old. As to when they were installed I'm not sure, but I do remember reading somewhere that NS was having issues with the block signalling back in the day, even before they turned over the line to B&P for operation. My guess is since B&P really only operates one train at a time over the line, the block system wasn't worth trying to keep maintained, with or without assistance from NS (as the line owners I'm not sure how much involvement they would have - I really don't know how that arrangement would work).

The southbounds at Gravity would also be original Pennsy signals. As for the northbound, it didn't "replace" the automatic block signal at MP15, it is a part of the absolute signal system at Gravity. Likely the original Pennsy position light one was damaged at some point, probably during the Conrail era - Conrail was famous for using tri-lights as their "go-to" replacement signal, had NS done the replacement it likely would've been a straight color-light - the "predecessor" to the "Vader" signals of today.

Your second post with the Paint drawings depict the standard top head for probably 90% of the Pennsy Position Lights. The Dual-head Tri-light on the bottom is capable of showing a number of aspects, and is two- or three-head signals are not uncommon to see at diverges.

Edit 1: BTW there are also a pair of autos at MP12, 3/4 of a mile north of Bowen Rd. The northbound signal would've been a "distant" or "approach" for Gravity, but I'd guess these are probably dark now too.

Edit 2: If you want better shots of the position light signals in action, go to the Warner Hills Rd crossing in Wales - the two Northbound absolutes are right at the roadway, and you'd even see a somewhat rare dwarf version of these signals. http://goo.gl/maps/YWDXr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
  by JoeS
 
I did some research into the age of the signals and here is some information that may help.

A 1931 track chart shows the south end of double track (EDT) from Buffalo at “JK” interlocking, MP 15.5. which is immediately north of W. Blood Rd. JK was later renamed “HUBBARD” interlocking by 1945, probably as a result of the installation of traffic control at Machias.

HUBBARD remained in place as late as 1970 but by 1972 the second track had been cut back to “GRAVITY” MP 8.4 which is about where it is today.

So I would conclude that the southbound signal at W. Blood and the northbound GRAVITY absolute were put in around 1971 or 1972. The northbound signal at W. Blood is probably the original absolute for HUBBARD and would have been installed prior to 1931.

The location now known as GRAVITY MP 8.9 was the east end of Ebenezer Yard in 1931. As noted in 1972 GRAVITY shows up at MP 8.4 and a 1978 TC shows it at MP 8.0. I agree with CT's opinion that the n/b signal at GRAVITY was a Conrail replacement.

Also of interest (to me anyways): in 1925 there was a siding between “SW” (South Wales) MP 22.4 and “HO” (Holland) MP 25.9. In 1931 SW was moved north to MP 21.5 and later renamed “WALES”. HO also moved south to MP 27.9 and later named “PERRY”.

Double track existed between these two points through 1970, but by 1972 WALES was listed at MP 22.0 and PERRY at MP 25.0 and the second main track relegated to siding status.
  by thebigham
 
I caught a late running BFSI on Feb. 25:

http://photos.greatrails.net/show/?orde ... Pittsburgh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Arcade Junction:
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=222270" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Machias Junction:
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=222272" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=222273" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=222274" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Machias:
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=222275" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Near Bird:
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=222276" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=222277" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=222278" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ashford Jct:
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=222279" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BF-1 on April 28 with #626 and #1512:
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=223633" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
  by smph50
 
Hi All!

Great news about the signals at MP15 at west Blood Road in Elma. NS/BR&P donated them to the Heritage Discovery Center!

Image

A big thanks to Bob Hill of Union Concrete for the loan of his crane truck & trailer, plus his time yesterday morning to take them down, load the two signal masts, plus the relay cabinet and battery box, and deliver and unload them at the museum. Thanks also to Don Owens for arranging the donation of the signals and arranging to have them brought to the museum. Our plans are to install the concrete footings and erect them along the display track.

More photo's on our Facebook page, no membership required. Thanks to Joe K. for the photo's!

https://www.facebook.com/HDCBuffalo

Sincerely, Scott H.
  by SST
 
Well I'm kinda sad they are gone from there original location but very happy they are in a place where they will be used and taken care of for everyone to see.

Glad you guys got them.
  by thebigham
 
GP9 #887 on BF-1 at Arcade Jct. in September:

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=225777" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SIBF heading to Buffalo in July 2015. A Montreal commuter loco is in the consist:

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=224875" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=224876" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BF-1 had an SD60M and a GP9 on May 7. Guess which one the crew used to switch the feed mill/A&A interchange?

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=223772" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=223729" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=223730" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A Mother's Day extra on the B&P. 458, 3323, 874 and 40 cars:

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=223771" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=223769" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=223770" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SIBF heading to Buffalo with a special surprise: 6072-3063-452-AMTX 1348 and approx. 18 cars. AMTX is a commuter railroad in Montreal:

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=223726" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=223727" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BF-1 returns to Buffalo. Shown climbing Arcade Hill on April 28. Power was #626 and #1512:

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=223633" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

An early SIBF heads north to Buffalo on march 19th with 3 units and 89 cars:

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=222838" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
  by thebigham
 
When is the B&P getting to Silver Springs nowadays? AM? PM? After dark?

I caught a late running BFSI on February 18.

458, 3328, 3323, 452 and 82 cars:

http://photos.greatrails.net/show/?orde ... y=98&key2=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/show/?orde ... y=98&key2=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/show/?orde ... y=98&key2=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/show/?orde ... y=98&key2=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
  by thebigham
 
The W&LE and the B&P are running coke trains to Buffalo.

I took crappy pics on a crappy day:

http://photos.greatrails.net/show/?orde ... e=1&key=98" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At Arcade Jct:

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=235156" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=235157" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=235158" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On another crappy day last November, I took crappy pics at Machias Jct. of an empty Herzog ballast train:

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=233987" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=233986" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=233985" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=233984" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=233982" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=233981" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=233980" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

An SIBF Extra: 457, 462, ?, 3301 and 58 cars on a beautiful November day:

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=233846" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

B&P's 3341, 3331, 462 and 457 at Salamanca last October:

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=233845" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
  by thebigham
 
Loaded coke train today on the B&P:

"AVR #3002, #301, #3063 and W&LE #6985 climbing the steep grade out of Arcade Jct.":

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=235338" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=235337" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=235336" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At South Wales, the train hit an unoccupied car that was left on the tracks. Dumb.
  by ctclark1
 
I've never seen the paint scheme on 302 before, is that something new or a case of renumbered but not repainted purchase?
  by Matt Langworthy
 
The coke train is a joint AVR/WL&E/B&P venture. As per a couple of FB reports, the coke is trans-loaded to ships in Lackawanna.
  by lvrr325
 
BPRR 302 is a GP40, ex-Alleghany RR 302 and still painted as such, before that was a Conrail unit.

BPRR 3302 is an SD40T-2, ex-KCS 6105, in KCS paint, originally SP 8358.
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