Brightline Expansion - Jacksonville

JohnFromJersey wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:34 pm What's their beef with Amtrak?

It's not a beef with Amtrak per se as much as it is a beef with public funding vs. private enterprise.

Brightline and FEC will have built more miles of operable faster speed rail in just a couple of years than what the State of California has been able to do with literally billions in Federal funding over 20 years.

I also disagree with Prof. Norman that this will become a ward of the State. FEC seems in it for the long haul.

eolesen wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:37 pm I also disagree with Prof. Norman that this will become a ward of the State. FEC seems in it for the long haul.

Yes, Mr. Olesen, FEC is in it for the long haul.

However, they are not the Brightline operator; they make tracks available over which Brightline trains are operated by FEC Rules Qualified employees. FEC receives remuneration for the use of their tracks; the basis of the remuneration is covered by a bilateral agreement and not subject to any kind of public disclosure. I would also think likely that where Brightline "ostensibly private" funding has re-laid the double track that King Henry always touted, and an FEC train operates over such, some kind of credit is afforded Brightline.

I'm astounded that the project ever got off the ground; I thought it was simply a ploy to sell the FEC to the party that was "most in interest" which was the State. The State invested much $$$ in several maritime ports, and one of which was Miami. Both shippers and maritime operators like having two railroads serving them. Miami has only one; but it would be in the interest that Jacksonville was an open gateway through which CSX and NS could make rates. Quite evidently, I was mistaken when the FEC was sold to Mexican interests.

But Brightline has never "made numbers" operating as a Disneyland joyride. Possibly this will change; the additional stops at Aventura and Boca are reported to be doing well and maybe all that is needed to turn the venture around is to serve McCoy. It seems like there are many a barrier to serve the Orlando theme parks (I have an unused one day ticket from '83 to Disneyland sitting around; apparently it never expires. Maybe I just might test it on my Feb Florida road trip) and if you serve Disneyland, it would not be practical to also serve Universal - and somehow, I don't think either overlord - Disney or Comcast - would be all too happy about that!

So at this time, I think Brightline will stay, but not in the private sector. Come this Sunday, when I plan a joyride, we shall see if my thoughts have reason to change.

Okay, clarification. FECI is in it for the long haul. When Fortress sold off the railroad, they kept Brightline and the real estate because that's where they see the money ultimately being made.

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I can see why the state of Florida is iffy about Amtrak doing what Brightline is doing. As @Gilbert B Norman, Amtrak is a Northeast entity that is very much so more focused on the Northeast more than anywhere else. Just look at their lines in the Northeastern states, and combine that with their operations everywhere else...

And yes, FEC/Brightline has moved faster on this project than any government entity probably could.

I also disagree that Brightline will become a ward of the state. Maybe it won't remain entirely "privatized" but I think, at worst, it will become a public-private partnership, where Brightline has some of its services subsidized by the state, but continues to run privately. I think that is a better arrangement than having it be entirely owned and run by the government, especially with how Brightline was very eager to run into the new MCO terminal, while SunRail is still trying to figure that one out.

Mr. John, I agree that "the jury is out" and will be so until service to McCoy commences, and for a reasonable "break in" afterwards.

I further agree that once construction began, it has apparently moved forth "on schedule".

Maybe that Brightline has never made numbers as a Disneyland Joyride will be meaningless if it provides meaningful transportation between the State's two population centers.

Once again, four more days until my next joyride.

Brightline could make a lot of money any time the Daytona speedway has activities depending on how close the station is to raceway.

Hmmmmm. I've been to the 500. NASCAR races tend to be an early morning tailgate kind of a party, lots of souvenir trailers and such. You have to get there early as well, and well, you need someplace to hang out while you wait for the race. I don't think it lends itself to rail travel. Not sure where the track is in relation to FEC tracks.

I think the real utility is the population centers along the FEC down to West Palm. Jax, St. Augustine, Palm Coast, Daytona, New Smyrna, Port Canaveral, et al. That said, once you get past Daytona, 95 isn't bad. You also need a branch to Orlando.

It's 2.7 miles from the crossing at Route 92 to the track property.

If you were bidding this out today, all the construction costs would be double, interest rates would be double, RR salaries are up what, 25%? How much more would Siemens rolling stock cost today? Inflation makes the original segment investments look smart!