Boston - Portland - Bangor, Express Passenger Service

Discussion in the Downeaster thread in the Amtrak forum has on several occasions brought up questions about historical performance of the B&M or the MEC between Boston, Portland, Bangor and certain segments in between.

Recently in attempting to find a timetable for the Flying Yankee I came across this item from 1933 which appears to be a timetable for a named train that ran prior to the Budd-built Flying Yankee which was built in 1935.

I have a couple of questions which I would like to find some answers for.

1. What was the fastest scheduled time ever between Boston and Portland?

2. Was there a non-fixed consist train named the Flying Yankee that preceded the Budd streamliner?

3. What was the fastest scheduled time ever between Portland and Bangor?

Finally if anyone can find a link to a timetable of the Flying Yankee and post it here that would be great. I have already started searching and haven't found one yet. Thanks very much in advance.

Here is a link to some discussion in the Yahoo B&M Group indicating of all things that at one time the Flying Yankee had a once a week departure from Rockland.

Never expected to see that.

Yes, there was a Flying Yankee standard equipment train before the Tin Fish. The 1934 timetable gives a Boston - Portland time of 2 hrs 15 min, 8:30 - 10:45 am. After the intro of the streamliner, the schedule was changed to 11:00 - 12:55, or 1 hr 55 min, and I believe it stayed there until discontinuance, although the departure time from Boston moved to noon, and the consist expanded to streamlined cars post WW II pulled by E-7 or E-8 diesel, because the patronage exceeded the TF's limited capacity.

Portland - Bangor, a 1938 public timetable shows a schedule of 12:55 - 4:00 pm for the streamliner, with four stops.

PBM

ferroequinarchaeologist wrote:Yes, there was a Flying Yankee standard equipment train before the Tin Fish. The 1934 timetable gives a Boston - Portland time of 2 hrs 15 min, 8:30 - 10:45 am. After the intro of the streamliner, the schedule was changed to 11:00 - 12:55, or 1 hr 55 min, and I believe it stayed there until discontinuance, although the departure time from Boston moved to noon, and the consist expanded to streamlined cars post WW II pulled by E-7 or E-8 diesel, because the patronage exceeded the TF's limited capacity.

Interesting. Thanks for the detail!

ferroequinarchaeologist wrote:Portland - Bangor, a 1938 public timetable shows a schedule of 12:55 - 4:00 pm for the streamliner, with four stops.

PBM

Was this via Lewiston or Augusta?

I have a June 26, 1933 MEC timetable that lists train no. 11 leaving Portland 11:05 am and arriving Bangor 2:50 pm. It ran via Augusta, and was called THE FLYING YANKEE in the TT. Another train, no. 43, left Portland 6:00 pm and arrived Bangor 9:50 pm. Also via Augusta, and called THE PINE TREE LIMITED in the TT.

The streamlined Flying Yankee, B & M #6000, was kept in Portland, Maine. In the September 29, 1935 timetable, it left Portland 8:30 am, made stops at Biddeford and Dover and reached Boston at 10:25. It was turned and departed 12 noon for Bangor, non stop to Portland arrive 1:50, leave 1:55 run via Lewiston with stops at Lewiston, Winthrop, Waterville, Newport Jct., arrive Bangor 4:55 pm. Leave Bangor 5:15 pm, back to Northen Maine Junction, wye train and return same route to Boston with same stops. Boston arrival 10:30 pm. The 4 hr 55 minute eastbound time was the best I can find. The 1 hr. 50 min. time on the Boston-Porland run on the Bangor trips isthe best I can find there. #6000 returned from Boston to Portland via the Eastern Route at 11:30 pm with stops at Ipswich, Newburyport, Portsmouth and Biddeford with 1:40 am arrival scheduled in Portland. The 6000 covered about 735 miles per day. In the June 20, 1947 employee timetable, the B& M raised the speed limit on the Western Route to 75 mph, but dropped it back to 70 shortly thereafter The B & M was probably gearing up to run faster diesel powered trains with the new Pullman Standard (Bradley plant) streamlined cars, but a B & M veteran told me that at 75, those lightweights were uncomfortable at that speed. The best diesel powered trains did between Boston and Portland was 1 hr. 55 minutes, non-stop.

I find it very interesting to note that according to edbear's post that would mean that the Western Route in its present status today is as good as it ever was in terms of track speed (if not better).

Obviously it is single track with a handful of interlockings with powered crossovers and some double ended signal controlled sidings but regardless I still think that's impressive.

It would seem from what we are reading here that this confirms our understanding that the primary difference between the "legacy" era and now is that the MBTA tracks must have significantly slower track speeds.

Is this correct? Are the present day tracks between North Station and Haverhill (@ 60 MPH) significantly slower than what was allowed in the B&M era?

60 in and of itself isn't that bad, but there are so many slow orders and semi-permanent speed restrictions between BON and the state line... :-\

The April 1947 ETT gives the maximum permissible speed on the Western Route from Draw 8 to P.T. Tower One for diesel-powered passenger trains as 75 mph, which syncs with Mr Bear's comments.

PBM

ferroequinarchaeologist wrote:The April 1947 ETT gives the maximum permissible speed on the Western Route from Draw 8 to P.T. Tower One for diesel-powered passenger trains as 75 mph, which syncs with Mr Bear's comments.

PBM

Sorry for the request for clarification..."Draw 8" being the drawbridges at BON?

Draw 8 was the Mystic River Draw which is where there is now a high level crossing of the river along with the adjacent Orange Line. You can spot the location from the platform at the Sullivan Orange Line station. The 60 mph speed from between Haverhill and Boston is a bit slower than the 70 mph that the B & M achieved in the late 1920s. The 3 hour 1935 timing between Portland and Bangor for the Flying Yankee Unit #6000 was probably quite an accomplishment. The Maine Central was almost a primitive railroad. The only 60 mph track on the 6000's MEC route was from Milepost 7 to New Gloucester, about 19 miles and Tower B at Waterville to Detroit, about 25 miles. There were 3 miles of 55 mph maximum from Deering Jct. to MP 7. The rest was 50 mph. There was about 60 miles of double track. One interesting aspect of the MEC was the large number of passing sidings connected at one end only. Almost every station had a passing siding and most could accomodate a good sized freight train in a meet. But the train taking the siding had to either head in and back out or back in and head out. There were 10 such sidings on the 72 miles of the Back Road via Lewiston and 7 on the mainline from Waterville to Bangor. The Flying Yankee route on both the B & M and Maine Central was protected by automatic block signals, most Style B semaphores. MEC information from Timetabe #14, September 26, 1937.

The B&M still had a 70 mph speed limit (with various local restrictions) on the Western Route between Boston and Portland in the mid-1960s, basically to the end of Portland passenger service. These days, MBTA commuter trains via Reading face a couple factors that their B&M counterparts of 50 years ago didn't. Locomotive-hauled trains don't accelerate as fast as RDCs and thus can't reach as high a speed between close-together commuter stops, and there is more concern about all those grade crossings around Melrose. Both are a disincentive to spending the extra money to raise the speed limit.

edbear wrote:Draw 8 was the Mystic River Draw which is where there is now a high level crossing of the river along with the adjacent Orange Line. You can spot the location from the platform at the Sullivan Orange Line station. The 60 mph speed from between Haverhill and Boston is a bit slower than the 70 mph that the B & M achieved in the late 1920s. The 3 hour 1935 timing between Portland and Bangor for the Flying Yankee Unit #6000 was probably quite an accomplishment. The Maine Central was almost a primitive railroad. The only 60 mph track on the 6000's MEC route was from Milepost 7 to New Gloucester, about 19 miles and Tower B at Waterville to Detroit, about 25 miles. There were 3 miles of 55 mph maximum from Deering Jct. to MP 7. The rest was 50 mph. There was about 60 miles of double track. One interesting aspect of the MEC was the large number of passing sidings connected at one end only. Almost every station had a passing siding and most could accomodate a good sized freight train in a meet. But the train taking the siding had to either head in and back out or back in and head out. There were 10 such sidings on the 72 miles of the Back Road via Lewiston and 7 on the mainline from Waterville to Bangor. The Flying Yankee route on both the B & M and Maine Central was protected by automatic block signals, most Style B semaphores. MEC information from Timetabe #14, September 26, 1937.

edbear,

That is very interesting information. Especially the observation regarding the typical configuration of passing sidings on the MEC.

Given the above I am having a hard time imagining how the Flying Yankee accomplished this time within the timetable. Did they have a special authorization for higher speeds? That seems to be the only way this could have been possible. Even today Augusta - Boston is routinely 2'55'' and Bangor is 4'6''. It seems that they would have to have been running at speeds well in excess of 80 MPH on certain segments in order to do this.

Without starting a flame war, I'd simply suggest that the rules and regulations were not quite as strictly enforced back then as they are today. My reason for saying that is based on stories I've been told by retired railroad engineers who worked during that time period.

3 hours from Portland to Bangor via Lewiston is only a tad over 45 mph, average. On the Back Road alone, there were 4 24 hour offices and 5 open fewer hours than around the clock. So, meets and orders could be arranged and changed on short notice. Since the Flying Yankee was a First Class train, it would be the freight trains that would have to get out of the way, normally. And the MEC's imaginative use of its two routes between Royal Junction & Waterville set it up so that only eastbound through freights usually ran the Back Road and westbounds ran the Lower Road. The 6000 could probably run 80; its slightly older brother, the Pioneer Zephyr was wound up to well over 100 for some distance on its record breaking Denver-Chicago run. If the Flying Yankee was delayed by a freight which was slow to get into a siding, it is the freight crew that probably got some unpaid time off.