BNSF and SMART agree to eliminate Conductors on board trains

[Freddy]

Mr gp80mac hit the nail on the head. And when the dust settles guess who'll be the conductors that'll still have a job. The conductors who were working 10 years ago who still have 30 years to go, give or take, depending on their age.

[GE45tonner]

I've been thinking about this for a bit. Even though I work in the industry and the impact could force me out of a job, I think the writing is on the walls. One man crews are coming. I worked in a terminal that had a brakeman list. When the locals were heavy a brakeman would be called out. That list went away despite doomsday predictions. Then beltpacks came. Again the doomsday predictions failed to materialize. Remotes are still here.

My point?

Railroads exist to maximize profit for shareholders or investors. Period. What are the biggest expenses? Wages, benefits, and fuel. Any wonder why one-man will ever eventually happen? And now add PTC with its huge price tag and its ability to pretty much run the trains itself. I'm sure they'll be a need for some conductors on some trains or to act as yard and road utilities, but you aren't going to find them on every train.

So instead of the unions passing around useless online petitions or shoving their head into the sand, they need to realize this is going to happen and get into a position where they can make sure that the most of their members will see maximum benefit from this inevitable change.

It sucks but it is how this country is. Most work out of the fewest people. Maximize profits.

····Just my opinion. Yours may vary.···

I'm not going to pretend I know more than you. But there has been a death at Selkirk yard CSX because of RCO operations. And I heard that countless yards stopped using beltpacks because the accidents were not worth it. Now conductors are going into engine service thinking they know more than they really do and that is gonna lead to accidents. The lac-megantic train - one man crew.

You make some good points but I think the unions have more ammo than you say. Online petitions are not going to do much except bring attention to the issue. What needs to be done is the union needs to be more proactive than ever and figure out how not to get screwed over by their general chairman.

[freightguy]

This is scary in some aspects and I have been wondering all along why the unions have made such a big push for PTC on the lines.

In a bit of irony, years back there was a nasty standoff between Burlington Northern and the unions on the Northern tier segment. BN went as far to try to say that the 1800 mile division was a separate railroad(calling it Winonna* Railway) to try to bust the unions and say that segment wasn't part of BN. I'm not sure if anybody is left from that era, but basically now the same region of BNSF is agreeing to new manning rules of one person crews. Hopefully the union membership doesn't decide to go ahead with this.

[freightguy]

http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/cer2nz ... y-company/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This was the transcripts from the action that BN tried to take from what I posted above.

[GE45tonner]

Some good news:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/09/11/2 ... .html?rh=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The fight is long from over but this a great step. Proves that conductors, young and old, know what's best and won't give in to what people are calling unavoidable. I think it is avoidable. There are several valid reasons too keep two man crews, none of which can be solved by PTC:
1)What if the engineer needs to leave his train to inspect an airhose or knuckle? Several class 1 railroads require that a certain number of handbrakes be set before a cab can be left unattended.

2)If that rule is revoked, what if the engineer is hurt while walking his train? How long will it take for the dispatcher to realize an engineer is harmed? What if the train was stopped in an unsafe neighborhood?

3)What if PTC malfunctions? What if the engineer is receives the wrong information (Think how often websites go down or are hacked, or face glitches). A second mind with traditional paperwork can prevent any wrong orders being carried out

4)How will an urgent back up move be made? If a train separates and has to wait for an already occupied "master conductor" traffic will be held up for hundreds of miles.

5) Engineers will no longer have the chance to spend years learning and practicing railroading as a conductor before becoming an engineer. Conductors learn the basics of train operations. New engineers will be more likely to make basic mistakes with items like train orders, signals, and handbrakes.

6)Discussion of rules between conductor and engineer can not be recreated by PTC. Rules are so complex an engineer may need to ask his conductor for his opinion on how a rule applies.

7)Conductors are often the reason engineers stay awake in the cab. Sure, PTC can stop a train if an engineer falls asleep, but do we really want trains going into emergency every time the engineer dozes off.

8)The isolation of crew members will make the workplace atmosphere worse and cause depression.

[COEN77]

Forms of PTC has been used in certian parts of the country for decades? Why is this so different? The only reason I can come up with the Feds are forcing the railroads to install it. So far the railroads have been successful in delaying it's implementation and retricted it to only lines with passenger service. What troubles me is how any union can allow a general committee to enter into any major agreement. This isn't bickering over milage, new jobs, safety issues ect....this is beyond what a GC should have a right to negotiate.

[gp80mac]

Some good news:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/09/11/2 ... .html?rh=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The fight is long from over but this a great step. Proves that conductors, young and old, know what's best and won't give in to what people are calling unavoidable. I think it is avoidable. There are several valid reasons too keep two man crews, none of which can be solved by PTC:
1)What if the engineer needs to leave his train to inspect an airhose or knuckle? Several class 1 railroads require that a certain number of handbrakes be set before a cab can be left unattended.

2)If that rule is revoked, what if the engineer is hurt while walking his train? How long will it take for the dispatcher to realize an engineer is harmed? What if the train was stopped in an unsafe neighborhood?

3)What if PTC malfunctions? What if the engineer is receives the wrong information (Think how often websites go down or are hacked, or face glitches). A second mind with traditional paperwork can prevent any wrong orders being carried out

4)How will an urgent back up move be made? If a train separates and has to wait for an already occupied "master conductor" traffic will be held up for hundreds of miles.

5) Engineers will no longer have the chance to spend years learning and practicing railroading as a conductor before becoming an engineer. Conductors learn the basics of train operations. New engineers will be more likely to make basic mistakes with items like train orders, signals, and handbrakes.

6)Discussion of rules between conductor and engineer can not be recreated by PTC. Rules are so complex an engineer may need to ask his conductor for his opinion on how a rule applies.

7)Conductors are often the reason engineers stay awake in the cab. Sure, PTC can stop a train if an engineer falls asleep, but do we really want trains going into emergency every time the engineer dozes off.

8)The isolation of crew members will make the workplace atmosphere worse and cause depression.

First off, I want as many people working out here as possible. I think we are going to hit the point where we as a country won't be able to sustain ourselves since we eliminated just about every job. Now saying that, let me play devil's advocate (or what a manager would probably say) for your situations:

1.) rules and procedures can be changed to make allowances for such situations.

2.) many people work by themselves in remote territories. Signal maintainers may be miles from their trucks looking for a TOL. What makes engineers so special? If the area is unsafe, they'll call out a trainmaster with a slingshot.

3.) If there is a paper redundancy, then the engineer needs to know conditions that affect the safe movement of his train. He should not have to rely on a conductor.

4.) Any "urgent" back up move is going to take time. Many places it may be faster for the utility/master conductor to drive to the rear of a train than to walk back. And if something is messed up enough that an unplanned reverse movement has to take place, the railroad is already screwed.

5.) Engineers used to hire right in engine service. Many conductors are promoted to engine service very soon after they start working. And you'll be given training, and more importantly, a CERTIFICATION that says you know what you are doing.

6.) Engineers are rules-tested every year. Again, they need to know their rules as a condition of employment. If they don't, they can find a new job.

7.) There is no sleeping in the cab of a locomotive while operating per rule. We'll have cameras set up in the cabs to enforce compliance. Again, you have a certification in your wallet.

8.) don't like it? Find a new job. We'll hire someone else.

Bottom line? I'm pretty sure we'll see one man operations within 5-10 years.

[NikB32]

http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/09/11 ... l-for.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It looks like this deal has been rejected for now. Not sure what the future holds