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  • Better food on non-LD trains - is it doable?

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1578818  by west point
 
IMO-----There definitely needs to be a reservation system so anyone on a LD , Regional or state supported can order a meal with enough advance warning. The lack of such just shows lack of any planning by management.
 #1578821  by rohr turbo
 
'advanced warning?' I disagree. Most people who reserve a train in the future don't have any idea how hungry they'll be or what they'll be in the mood for when the day comes.

I think there should be a variety of tasty, fresh, attractive options available on the spot. Shouldn't be so difficult. I'm sorry the Subway on Empire experiment was stillborn. Unions should not get in the way of progress.
 #1578823  by Railjunkie
 
rohr turbo wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:27 pm 'advanced warning?' I disagree. Most people who reserve a train in the future don't have any idea how hungry they'll be or what they'll be in the mood for when the day comes.

I think there should be a variety of tasty, fresh, attractive options available on the spot. Shouldn't be so difficult. I'm sorry the Subway on Empire experiment was stillborn. Unions should not get in the way of progress.
Fresh tasty options on the spot. There is only so much cooler space and you need it for your beer and other cold items. Dont forget there are not that many places to re stock once you leave, its a 3 day trip you have what you have so your fresh tasty items better be able to survive in a cooler that bounces between 33 and 45 degrees. There are no temp controls back there.
Here is one of the biggest things your coolers are also your storage when the car closes for the night anything that has any value needs to be locked up. LSAs are held responsible for any shortages at the end of the trip. The money comes out of your pocket you miss place a full sleeve of revenue coffee cups that's 50 cups at what ever the price of coffee is these days. You could never leave a car set up overnight you would loose your @ss. Well one spot you could. It was NFL those guys at night wouldn't touch a thing and if they did they left a note and the $$
 #1578824  by photobug56
 
A reminder is that the question in this thread is not about LD trains, but rather trains ranging from Acela between NYP and DC or Boston, or NYP to Montreal or Vermont, or other trains ranging from an hour or two to say just short of 24 hours (I know that time's not a definition of LD or non-LD). I rode Acela from NYP to DC 2 years ago - the cafe food was of lower quality than the cheap stuff at my local supermarket's freezer section, and the service made my local Subway (with no working phone, where coupons never work, where no one speaks English even if they do) look classy. And my family did NOT take Amtrak to travel to Montreal because the same type of lousy food just doesn't cut it for a what, 12 hour or longer ride! On a ride that long there needs to be DINING service with fresh, made to order hot food.

The question is - what would it take for each? Couple hour ride to have decent food with decent service, and a long ride to have excellent food?
 #1578826  by rohr turbo
 
We keep hearing that food cannot be improved on a train because of the historic limitations of space, or poor temperature control, or union rules, or risk of theft, or..... But someone needs to think outside the box. I've had delicious food in airports that were compact and quickly reheated. My local grocery store has sushi packs fresh every morning. Bagel shop has great options. Starbucks even has some nice light meal fare that require no prep (maybe 60 second microwave). Airline business class can serve wonderful steak dinners, a couple dozen meals in a cart maybe 1'x2'x4'. Why can't a caterer roll those onto a train at departure or intermediate point? Other venues have figured out how to deliver quality food, quickly and profitably.

I also think there is a multiplier effect: when there are really nice food options available during travel, the whole train experience is lifted. Nice drinks (quality coffee and alcohol) relax passengers and are high margin.

Ideally Amtrak would offer nice food, courteous service, decent OTP, and cleanliness. Right now it's mediocre in those 4 departments. If all were decent, then people will flock to day trains (and spend more $$).
Last edited by rohr turbo on Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 #1578835  by Greg Moore
 
I'll agree with the above poster who argues against those who say food can't be improved.
It clearly can be. For one, it's been better in the past. For another, as I and others have pointed out, in some cases it's simply a matter of better prep, and as the Downeaster shows, one can do regional food that's well received.

No one here is really arguing that non-LD trains should be serving gourmet meals in the cafe car (though that might be nice :-) but simply that food has been and can be better.
 #1578840  by Railjunkie
 
There are no union rules over better food. However the use of non union employees in a union shop well lets just say I prefer not to get into that side of the discussion.. Lack of storage is a concern I dont need to be on a three day trip and have some drunk fool wandering through my car helping himself to my "fresh and tasty" products because I dont have enough room to store them all.

ALL SHORTAGES COME OUT OF THE LSA POCKET!!!! PERIOD.

You want to restock at certain points along the way that is fine. A national catering company that can actually provide high quality food at a reasonable cost (unicorn) or in the case of state supported service allow the states to have input on the menu and catering service. I wonder how the host railroads are going to feel about a 20 minute stop for commissary??

When you set up your car you are expected to be open at departure time, I dont remember the rules on breaks cause I figured if I sat down for a minute or two that was a break. There are no hours of service laws for the LSA craft. So you could get off a 2 day trip get a couple of hours off and go right back out again. Been there done it. Could there be improvement inside the craft? Im sure.
 #1578855  by eolesen
 
If café cars were set up similar to an airplane galley with roll on/off carts prepacked, you could reprovision in under five minutes, possibly where you already do a crew change.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

 #1578865  by R.B.Phillips
 
All this talk about how to do what was routine as late as 1980-81 - meals consistent with daydreamers who live in Lucius Beebe books, minus the china, included beverages and salad, and finger bowls - is striking.

I'd pay $25+ for the Great Lakes whitefish, broiled, that I had in 1975 on the Lake Shore in a snowstorm, with a tablecloth, but just a vestige of Beebe. Or, $18.95 for the early bird Salisbury Steak special on the Southwest Limited of 1981.

Just bring the stuff on board and drop the make a profit B-S.

R.B.
 #1578873  by STrRedWolf
 
mcgrath618 wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 7:32 am 42/43 really need better food. It’s a long train ride, and the cafe car doesn’t cut it. Having been on it thrice, I found myself arriving in Philadelphia wanting a cheesesteak.
Agreed. It's why I think Flex Dining is better for those 8-hour hauls. $10 zap meal that's better than a Jimmy Deans Breakfast Sandwich? Sure! Did the Pennsy thrice and every time back from Pittsburgh would transfer at 30th street to go south to BWI. Got lunch there both ways.

I also think using milage doesn't help the case. Boston to DC is 456 miles, but on the NEC is roughly 8 hours if not more, and to get decent grub you got to go on the Acela.

Better food is possible.
 #1578883  by photobug56
 
Some very good points. And generally very doable. And all working on trains can be unionized, have carts delivered to the trains like airlines do. As to Acela food, I'm guessing first class eats well. No one else does unless they bring a cart of food with them with some way to heat it up en route!
 #1578889  by Arborwayfan
 
Railjunkie wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:24 am There are no union rules over better food. However the use of non union employees in a union shop well lets just say I prefer not to get into that side of the discussion.. Lack of storage is a concern I dont need to be on a three day trip and have some drunk fool wandering through my car helping himself to my "fresh and tasty" products because I dont have enough room to store them all.

ALL SHORTAGES COME OUT OF THE LSA POCKET!!!! PERIOD.
It sounds like slightly different equipment could make a big difference. If we were the committee to design new cars, maybe we would decide to have better refrigeration and better locked storage in the cafe cars. In Sweden I used a cafe car that had most of the food displayed in self-service cases; there were roll-down doors in front of the cases that the attendant would close and lock when they had to leave the car. Wouldn't a setup like that make work easier for the LSA, and make it easier to have better food more of the time? (By the way, do they really charge you for missing coffee cups as though the cups were full? They don't check how much coffee you used? Sounds awful.)

What about a cafe car with a removeable/swappable storage module on wheels that could be changed out in five minutes from any high-level platform, maybe through a special door in the side of the car? I'm thinking of something designed to fit exactly and securely into a space in the car, where the LSA could easily get to its cold and room-temp compartments.
 #1578894  by electricron
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:21 pm Agreed. It's why I think Flex Dining is better for those 8-hour hauls. $10 zap meal that's better than a Jimmy Deans Breakfast Sandwich? Sure! Did the Pennsy thrice and every time back from Pittsburgh would transfer at 30th street to go south to BWI. Got lunch there both ways.

I also think using milage doesn't help the case. Boston to DC is 456 miles, but on the NEC is roughly 8 hours if not more, and to get decent grub you got to go on the Acela.

Better food is possible.
How many times do I have to post these statistics before it sinks in?
https://www.railpassengers.org/site/ass ... 453/5a.pdf
NEC Regional
Trips by length, 2019
0- 99 mi 33.9%
100- 199 mi 30.0%
200- 299 mi 33.8%
300- 399 mi 1.6%
400+ mi 0.7%

Less than 1% of NEC riders ride over 400 miles.
More statistics from the same link:
Average trip 156 miles
Total trips 8,824,469

Let's have some fun with some math.
0.7% = 0.007
0.007 x 8,824,469 = 61, 771 trips over 400 miles for an entire year.
61,771 /365 days per year = 169 trips per day over 400 miles.
Let's assume Amtrak easily runs 20 trains, 10 in each direction, every day.
169 trips per day / 20 trains a day = 8.45 passenger per train over 400 miles on NEC regionals.

Some will say I was being slightly unfair calculation for over 400 miles trips. Well, over 300 miles trips are about three times more, so 8.4 trips per train turns into less than 30 passengers per train riding over 300 miles on the NEC Regionals.

At the average speeds around 70 mph, it only takes 4.3 hours to travel 300 miles, and around 6.5 hours to travel 456 miles. That's for around 2% of the total passengers on these trains. The average trip of 156 miles only takes less than 2.25 hours at an average speed of 70 mph. How hungry will most passengers get in less than 2.25 hours?
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