• Berkshire & Eastern (former PAS)

  • Pan Am Southern (webssite: https://panamsouthern.com ) is jointly-owned by CSX and Norfolk Southern, but operated by Genesee & Wyoming subsidiary Pittsburg & Shawmut dba Berkshire and Eastern,
Pan Am Southern (webssite: https://panamsouthern.com ) is jointly-owned by CSX and Norfolk Southern, but operated by Genesee & Wyoming subsidiary Pittsburg & Shawmut dba Berkshire and Eastern,

Moderator: MEC407

  by CN9634
Perhaps I’m wrong but I’d like to start a side bar separate from the Pan Am sale thread, as I think that story is largely written with what’s going on with CSX/NS ect as well as whatever other interesting discussion that is there.

However I think moderately overlooked in this one day old conversation is the implications for G&W here in New England as a powerhouse. A few thoughts putting cart miles ahead of horses:

GWI has an opportunity to build East Deerfield as a hub operation tying together everything except the SLR. Curious if trains from each property CSO, NECR and P&W could be efficiently routed and “interchanged” there. Also, what if any implications on local shops since now GWI will have several in relatively close proximity.

  by Shortline614
Here's another thought: In the past, there was an intermodal terminal proposed along the NECR in Massachusetts. Now the B&E-NECR-CSOR-P&W system will have access to two big intermodal facilities, Mechanicville and Ayer. My first thought is that containers coming from Canada (off of CP in Mechanicville and CN at East Alburgh) now would have "single-line" service into most of New England.
  by CN9634
That’s an interesting thought... I’ll have to check the app regarding mention of “US Intermodal” who operates Ayer... I thought they were a Pan Am Systems subsidiary but maybe not the case. But to your point, if GWI gains access to Ayer (Micky is a fully NS facility PAR did not have access) there is no reason they can’t tap into the CN and/or CP intermodal networks and start routing some boxes out of Canada or the midwest beyond CSX (thinking Minneapolis for example).

My other thought was the grain at the Willows— can CP And CN now run full grain trains in via NECR/B&E gateways? How about unit ethanol to P&W? Everyone is predicting doom and gloom for D3 but I actually envision a lot of new and busy opportunities especially with CN who may finally have meaningful access into New England.
  by F74265A
Gwi will be the operator, not owner, of PAS. So presumably there will be some financial incentive for gwi to favor routes over its owned properties. It won’t truly be an integrated system in that respect
  by CN9634
Given the language of the STB app it would seem that for all intents and purposes this will become essentially a fully GWI controlled property... and reading the tealeaves it is likely that GWI would pickup (or have the option to) the CSX 50% stake at some point in the near future. Same way ST could operate PAS seamlessly with PAR, GWI can integrate it into the operating model of the region (basically says as much in the app).
  by F74265A
My inquiry was whether gwi will have the financial incentive to take maximum advantage of that integration opportunity as operator or even as 50 percent owner if they buy out csx in the future
  by Ale Rider1
I think this is a great thread.

This will probably have a major impact on the freight traffic in Connecticut. I know the PAS traffic to CT has increased in the past few years, but I wonder if GWI service would get some more new customers or entice some old ones back.

Going to be very interesting, basically all the freight handled in CT will be touched by GWI less anything that rolls on the Housatonic. Even CSX in New Haven is reached via Connecticut Southern trains....

Would CSX turn over CT completely to CSO / GWI?
  by RJDC85
Thank you for starting this thread, CN9634!

This new GWI railroad creates (in my non rail industry but business mindset) a greater efficiency of operations and potential for GWI in New England as well as their interchange partners/Canadian Class 1's.

Would there eventually be an ultimate consolidation of CSOR/NECR/P&W/B&E under one unified rail system, or is it not needed as they are all owned by the same corporation?

Would B&E be able to have direct interchange with CSOR, or are there any paper barriers in place by CSX/nee Conrail?

I agree that this should be seen as a win for southern New England and CT especially.
  by J.D. Lang
I could see propane and lumber coming off of CN in St. Albans heading down to CT. Pas has grown both commodities quite a bit down here in the last few years.
  by newpylong
I think the CN Gateway certainly is very intriguing to bring into the fold. There will essentially be a Class 3 RR all way from St. Albans down to Deerfield (Greenfield, close enough) bringing some new opportunities to PAS customers.

Is there anything from CN that the P&W would seek access to to Worcester? If so, perhaps we would see the resurgence of the Millers Fall connection. Certainly much faster than going down to Willimantic.
  by F74265A
Was not there a batch of auto racks that came down from cn that moved to PW via willimantic in recent months?
  by CN9634
I'm curious does B&E have access to Ardent (The Milling) at the Willows? I believe that is off PAS, if so it'll be fair game for CN now to route more competitively as I know both BNSF-CSX grain had been coming in but also some fairly large cuts off CP from time to time.

Ethanol strikes a similar idea, although I think CP will have a more effective routing now... again I'm treating the GWI family properties basically as a single RR now, and perhaps they'll be some pricing synergies to make that a reality at least on paper.

Another question-- will B&E have access to the Ayer ramp? I believe that is also a yes, as Pan Am had access thus the Poland Springs traffic. If so, similar story of a CN (likely) or CP (unlikely but possible) connection. As I recall, CN has haulage rights to Ayer, but it's not been a very effectively or competitive routing, so that could certainly be revisited. The only issue I see is that CN has some out of route miles coming into NE, so unless they can access a single-carrier market (thinking IC properties or Western Canada) it might be a little tougher to compete.

All in all, I'd say a good win for CN and to lesser extent CP.

Also-- how did VRS get cut out of a CSX connection? They seem like the only status-quo 'loser' if you will in that part of the world. Will they dump Bennington as an interchange now that they'll be plenty connected at Bellows Falls?

Let's talk shops... Worcester, St. Albans and now Deerfield. Can they all exist in their current forms? Should one be downsized or work rationalized?
  by Red Wing
I find it fascinating that CSX and NS own the place and B&E is the subcontractor. Will the B&E be allowed to go for sales? If they get more traffic they make more money but what type of profit are they getting to run the train? Is it worth it if the railroad isn't improved for faster speeds? Who's going to pay for the update I would assume the owners. Personally if this works out where B&E can solicit business this could be a model for other areas where there is freight not worth it for a class I but for a II or III would be the bread and butter.
  by Shortline614
The B&E will be allowed to market it's own traffic and will have the ability to make rates without interference from CSX or NS.
  by newpylong
Yes the Milling is a PAS customer and the Hill Yard ramp is owned and run by a PAS sub, used to be called GMX - Guilford Motor Express. The Poland Spring traffic is being interchanged with PAS once it hits Willows East I imagine the same will hold true after the sale then PAS get's the terminating fees, etc.

VTR is definitely the main potential loser I can think of, I did reply in the Pan Am board about this. If they do not take B&E's pledge to retain current pricing/routing options (read CSX for VTR out Hoosick Junction) I can see VTR requesting some sort of long term haulage agreement or even trackage rights to Rotterdam to access CSX directly. A crew on at North Bennington can make Rotterdam and back with decent track no problem. Who knows...

RE:B&E on PAS: the STB filings they would put together an annual budget that the owners (NS and CSX) would fund for capital improvements. I am sure there will be other cost sharing though for usual maintenance.

We may be surprised with the change in track conditions. The NECR and P&W track is in pretty damn good shape for less potential tonnage than PAS.