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  • Bay Ridge Branch

  • Discussion related to NYAR operations on Long Island. Official web site can be found here: www.anacostia.com/nyar/nyar.html. Also includes discussion related to NYNJ Rail, the carfloat operation successor to New York Cross Harbor that connects with NYAR.
Discussion related to NYAR operations on Long Island. Official web site can be found here: www.anacostia.com/nyar/nyar.html. Also includes discussion related to NYNJ Rail, the carfloat operation successor to New York Cross Harbor that connects with NYAR.
 #618379  by DogBert
 
Yesterday was a good day for a walk, so I met up with a few people to go walk the length of the Bay Ridge branch...

A few notable things -

No cars at the NYRR interchange. There looked like there were some cars in 65th. yard but we didn't walk back there.

Rail looked rusty, like it hasn't been run on in a week or two. Some spots through the residential area west of brooklyn college where the rails looked much more rusty. I'm guessing that is from the leaves that were piled up down there?

There were also sections of retaining wall along this part that were held up with rails - anyone know when this was done?

There were two DSNY dumpsters along this part of the tracks as if someone at some time tried to clean it up. They didn't get very far with their cleanup efforts (unless this is some ongoing work?).

Under (I believe) ocean ave there was a cinderblock structure placed under the overpass with rail running into it. Was this some sort of MOW office at some point? You could fit a locomotive or some hi railers in there for sure. There were also some rooms with shelving - all of it was knocked over, tagged up, and completely abandoned.

There's some new building over the tracks east of Brooklyn College. They left space for 4 tracks under there and had the entire 'tunnel' very well lit.

Entering the industrial parts of town. we found a siding w/a box car at some building supply place, about a half dozen cars of pellets behind favorite plastics, and about a dozen BRRX cars at siding where old cars get shredded and hauled off to who knows where. This one seemed to be the big customer of the bay ridge, at least at the moment.

BTM had a single refrigerator car on the very long siding that they have down there. The building they were demoing in there is now gone. It looks like they might be taking down the one next to it, though I don't know if it's always been so open looking?

A bit further north from here behind NYCTA linden shops there was a random cut of 5 cars on a siding. No idea why they were there. 2 or 3 gons, a box and another pellet car. seemed like a strange place to leave these cars.

North of there it was clear to fresh pond. No cars at gershow just south of the tunnel, though the siding is still there and looked to be occasionally active.
 #618572  by freightguy
 
The building supply place you probably saw was Glenwood Mason. A little north (railroad East) of Brooklyn College. They receive carloads of brick.
 #618642  by jayrmli
 
Under (I believe) ocean ave there was a cinderblock structure placed under the overpass with rail running into it. Was this some sort of MOW office at some point? You could fit a locomotive or some hi railers in there for sure. There were also some rooms with shelving - all of it was knocked over, tagged up, and completely abandoned.
If it's the overpass I'm thinking of, this was used during the New Haven days when the line was still electrified. I think they stored maintenance vehicles in there to service the catenary. There was a very bad derailment right there in the 1960's, blamed on vandalism and someone throwing a switch.

Jay
 #618644  by ncvab
 
AMENDMENT TO THE
FFY 2008-2012 TRANSPORTATION IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM (TIP)

ANNOUNCEMENT OF PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD
(December 30th, 2008 through January 13th, 2009)

The New York City Transportation Coordinating Committee (NYCTCC) is pleased to announce a ten business day public review period for an proposed amendment to the NYCTCC portion of the New York Metropolitan Transportation Council (NYMTC) Federal Fiscal Year (FFY) 2008-2012 Transportation Improvement Program (TIP). The proposed actions are as follows:

Addition of New Projects to the TIP


4. PIN X500.19, Completion of the Cross Harbor Freight Movement Project Environmental Impact Statement (EIS). The project was originally on the FFY 2002 - FFY 2004 TIP. However, due to lack of funding and sponsorship it was not continued as part of the project listings in subsequent TIPs. An earmark, SAFETEA-LU, Section 1301, Projects of National and Regional Significance for a Cross Harbor Freight Movement Program, added federal funds to the project to allow completion of the EIS. In addition, the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey assumed sponsorship of the project.

Project Cost: $12,000,000 (Includes PANY&NJ Local Match) of SAFETEA LU Earmark funds.

Sponsor: PANY&NJ



5. PIN X501.79, Independent improvements (state-of-good-repair) to preserve existing Cross-Harbor Rail Freight Service. The elements of this program include restoration to a state of good repair of the existing float/transfer bridges, barges, support track, interchange track, and switches; purchase of new low-emission locomotives to replace the existing equipment; support for efforts to address vertical clearance deficiencies beneath bridges over the Bay Ridge Line and Lower Montauk Branch Rail Line in Brooklyn and Queens; and to install a bi-directional signal system on the Lower Montauk Branch Line in Queens.

Project Cost: $83,000,000 (Includes PANY&NJ Local Match) of SAFETEA-LU Earmark funds Sponsor: PANY&NJ



Detailed description of the projects will be made available upon request and can also be accessed online at anytime during this review through the NYMTC website at http://www.nymtc.org/abouttip-down.cfm


The comment period opens on December 30th, 2008 and comments are due in writing by the close of business on January 13th, 2009.

All comments should be addressed to:

Uchenna Madu
New York City Transportation Coordinating Committee
47-40 21st Street, Long Island City
New York, NY 11101

Email comments should be addressed to [email protected] or faxed to 718-482-6686.
 #618892  by DogBert
 
jay i'm pretty sure that is the right spot. Someone had photos of that wreck online bu I can't seem to find it now.

I was driving around sunset park today and happened across NYRR running down 1st ave w/about a dozen cars. They came back 20 minutes later with some of that random cut of cars that was previous behind NYCTA linden yard, so a train must have run down the line to drop them off at the interchange.

NYRR was using their ex UP unit (1133). They haven't painted out the UP lettering... though there is a small 'mets' logo by he cab...
 #621330  by Mr rt
 
Haven't seen it mentioned that NY Cross Harbor aka NY-NJ sold out to th Port Auth.
What do you guys think will be the result of this ... more or less car float business ... movement of float to "new" facility in Brooklyn ? i.e. no more 2nd Ave in the street running
 #621481  by Nova55
 
Why not read ncvab's post...

Ive heard additional stuff as well..mostly good.
 #621527  by jayrmli
 
Thanks for posting the wreck photos Dogbert. I haven't seen them in awhile myself.

The one picture shows the tunnel that was brought up in the original question on this thread.

Jay
 #621724  by Mr rt
 
Nova55 & NCVAB,
- Repair NYCDOT Float/Trans Bridge
- Buy loco
- Signals on Lwr Montauk
- Raise/remove obstructions on Bay Ridge (Vertical Clearance)

On the last point, what will that do for the ability of double stacks to come to LI ?
Aren't there still many other obstructions ?
Could CP then bring double stacks down over Hell Gate for float to NJ ?
I seem to remember a problem at the NH/NYC merge, i.e. they can't get to Oak Point.
 #621831  by jtunnel
 
Most Intermodal well cars can't clear the third rail so CP can't bring down. Also road bridges over the Freemont/Bayridge will not clear TOFC without some serious work. Metropolitan Avenue "tunnel" and the East New York Tunnels come to mind at first glance.

Running Well cars on Long Island with the third rail will also raise a few problems. Back in the 80's Budd designed a "Lo-Pac 2000" well car set that was to allow TOFC and COFC into areas with clearence issues. But we know what happened to the Budd Company (although Thrall did pick up and incorporate that car design into their car line)
 #622136  by Mr rt
 
Jtunnel, Well then The Port Authority's plan may be (in phases):
1. Restore the 65th Street Float/Bridge to service
2. Hand off local, xNY Cross Harbor, freight business to NY & Atl
why, because I don't see The Port Authorty wanting to be in the freight business
on this side of the Hudson.
3. Bring double stack cars there & create a unloading facility (lots of land available)
4. Fix restrictions on Bayridge to Fresh Pond
5. Permit exchange of double stacks with CP at Fresh Pond
This will require some work in The Bronx
6. ... really long term goals

I see 1 & 2 in my life time ... 3 & 4 won't happen for a while due lack of funds,
i.e. I see The Port Authority spending what money they have or can get elsewhere.
 #622148  by jtunnel
 
Isn't NS the only one using the Cross Harbor route to hand off cars from CRSA to Long Island?

Port Authority has no incentive in any of this. If the Port Authority and NS do some back room trading, Sadly, IMO, I see the float operations going the way of the dodo, and the Port Authority's job of killing harbor rail freight will be done.

Mayor Bloomberg and Doctoroff have done well killing what ever local customers were using the Cross Harbor in Brooklyn. Cocoa Bean traffic is gone, water front is being developed by those who don't need rail freight. I see DHL has moved into a large portion of the available properties with rail access in the area right across the street from the Bush Yard. (They don't ship packages by rail) Industry City is now home to small businesses & importers (priced out of other commercial areas in the city) who might get a container a day by truck from New Jersey, Red Hook or Staten Island.

NY&A use 65th as car storage (and for one customer), and those floats bridges are unproven, restricted loading white elephants.

Perhaps we need carfloats that can hold several strings of well cars and load them directly at the Red Hook container terminal from the ship. Not enough real estate to stage and store intermodal container operations along waterfront in Brooklyn.
 #622168  by ncvab
 
Mr rt wrote: Hand off local, xNY Cross Harbor, freight business to NY & Atl why, because I don't see The Port Authorty wanting to be in the freight business on this side of the Hudson.
NYAR will not take over the floating for the same reason as NS -- liability. Carfloating is not easy. Accidents can happen. The last thing a carrier wants to see in the news is that they dumped a freight car into NY Harbor.

There were thoughts of having NYAR take over the floating operations when it started up in late 1996. They hired some of the top guys from NYCH. It never worked out.

Another idea "floated" was having winter Canadian single stack service from Howland Hook to Montreal. To avoid frozen ports, freighters would unload directly to flat cars in Staten Island; cars float to 65th Street via new float bridge at Pt. Ivory, and CP hauls them away.

And then there's the Elizabeth, NJ to Bay Ridge Ro-Ro plans, and then there's........................
 #622171  by jtunnel
 
"Another idea "floated" was having winter Canadian single stack service from Howland Hook to Montreal."

That's an interesting idea. CP already can go to Oak Island with the old D&H agreement. Perhaps an extension or another agreement to Howland Hook? Cool.

Beavers on the AK lift span...........More stacks going through Binghampton......one can dream