B&O TO DETROIT

Prior to the affiliation with the C&O, the B&O passenger trains between Cincinnati and Detroit (Cincinnatian) and Baltimore / Washington and Detroit (Ambassador) utilized the NYC between Toledo and Detroit. After the affiliation with the C&O, there was a onece-a-week RDC round-trip Deshler / Detroit via the NYC to keep the trackage rights in effect.

Does anyone know if the train and engine crews between Toledo and Detroit were B&O employees or NYC employees?

Also, did the B&O operate any freight service to Detroit, and -- if so --
what yard facilities did they use in Detroit?

Thanks in advance.

I don't think the purpose of the once a week (Saturday, I believe) very dirty RDC round-trip Deshler-Toledo to Detroit via NYC route was to retain trackage rights. I think it was so B & O would avoid a potentially costly penalty or suit for quitting Michigan Central Terminal in Detroit on its own...until NYC and B & O worked out a financial solution. Then the RDC was discontinued.

eddiebear,

IIRC, the passenger trackage rights and the use of MC Stn were all part of the same contract which specified a minimum of one round-trip per week. You are correct that the RDC run was a temporary thing until a settlement could be agreed upon or the advance notice for termination had run its course.

I can't answer the crew question, but B&O didn't operate any freight into Detroit. Anything going that way was was interchanged to NYC or PM/C&O.

Speaking of the PM and C&O, B&O passenger trains originally used the PM between Toledo and Fort St. Union Depot in Detroit. I think this dated back to the early 1900s when the PM and CH&D were under common control as part of the ill-fated "Great Central Route." They switched to the MC sometime after WWII, but I forget the date and am too lazy to hike up/down three flights of stairs to look it up. It's covered in Harry Stegmaier's book on the Capitol Limited route, among others.

shlustig wrote:Prior to the affiliation with the C&O, the B&O passenger trains between Cincinnati and Detroit (Cincinnatian) and Baltimore / Washington and Detroit (Ambassador) utilized the NYC between Toledo and Detroit. After the affiliation with the C&O, there was a onece-a-week RDC round-trip Deshler / Detroit via the NYC to keep the trackage rights in effect.

Does anyone know if the train and engine crews between Toledo and Detroit were B&O employees or NYC employees?

Also, did the B&O operate any freight service to Detroit, and -- if so --
what yard facilities did they use in Detroit?

Thanks in advance.

B&O crews operated 19 and 20 between Willard and Toledo only. Brakeman worked out of Willard and Conductors were Toledo Division , I believe New York Central operated the Ambassador as 719 and 720. Im not sure how 53 & 54 or 57 & 58 worked.

Freight betwen Willard and Toledo was a pool job and split between Chicago Division and Toledo Division crews. Each division built up so much mileage and then it would pass back to the other. Toledo Pool crews worked the Detroit Timesaver and the 397 & 394 sometimes called the Detroit Steel because of all the steel traffic from Pittsburg and Youngstown. And of course, a slew of coal drags during the season. I can tell you that none of the Willard crews worked past Toledo freight or passenger.