• B&M/MEC/BAR Lightweight Passenger Equipment

  • Discussion relating to the pre-1983 B&M and MEC railroads. For current operations, please see the Pan Am Railways Forum.
Discussion relating to the pre-1983 B&M and MEC railroads. For current operations, please see the Pan Am Railways Forum.

Moderator: MEC407

  by Jim S
 
I've been doing some research and would like to verify the names and numbers of the cars delivered by Pullman-Standard to the B&M, Maine Central, and Bangor and Aroostook in the late 40's. Can anyone out there direct me to a roster? Nearly all of them had names and numbers and I'd like to match the names to the numbers. In addition, did the B&M and the MEC have any lightweight sleepers, and what were the names/numbers of those? Any help would be much appreciated, thanks.
  by truman
 
The Late Leroy Hutchinson, along with a few others , but his is the only name that I can recall offhand, compiled an all time list of B&M passenger equipment and published it a few pages at a time in the Boston and Maine Railroad Historical Society magazine "B&M Bulletin". Give them a try, pay a visit to their archives. There is usually a member there on Saturdays to help find things. See Otto's post at the top of the forum for details and contact info.
  by jbvb
 
My Unofficial B&M Page passenger roster has car names and numbers:

http://www.faracresfarm.com/jbvb/rr/bmr ... tml#roster

The BAR 6-4-6 sleepers were South Twin Lake and North Twin Lake. Their coaches were 250 Katahdin, 251 Chippewa and 252 Mohawk.

MEC Restaurant-Lounge: Arundel, Merrymeeting; Combine: Forest Queen, Lumber King; Coach: Alamoosook, Webhannet, Katahdin, Parmachenee, Sagadahoc, Abenaki, Kineo, Passamaquoddy.

Source: Passenger Trains of Northern New England (Holland), but also in Official Pullman-Standard Library Vol. 10 and Accu-cals or Micro-Scale decal sets.

jbvb
  by davidp
 
B&M had four lightweight sleepers in the 6-4-6 layout. Salisbury Beach (still in existance as a PV), Rye Beach, Old Orchard Beach and Hampton Beach. Two were later renamed Dartmouth College I and Dartmouth College II for New York Penn Station to White River Junction service on the Montrealer/Washingtonian. They used the same floor plan as BAR's sleepers and were quite similar to the New Haven's 6-4-6s.
  by NS VIA FAN
 
davidp wrote:B&M had four lightweight sleepers in the 6-4-6 layout. Salisbury Beach (still in existance as a PV), Rye Beach, Old Orchard Beach and Hampton Beach. Two were later renamed Dartmouth College I and Dartmouth College II for New York Penn Station to White River Junction service on the Montrealer/Washingtonian. They used the same floor plan as BAR's sleepers and were quite similar to the New Haven's 6-4-6s.
Here's a shot of CN "Greendale" xB&M Dartmouth College I at Stellarton, Nova Scotia in 1973. It's the through Sydney-Montreal Sleeper on CN's "Cabot" which connected to the "Scotian" at Truro.

Image
  by gokeefe
 
City Point Central Railroad has a lightweight passenger car from Maine Central. It is probably one of the only lightweight MEC cars still preserved in Maine today. The road number was MEC #391.

What is the name of this car? What was the factory configuration etc.?

City Point Central Railroad Museum Web page "About Us" w/two photos of MEC #391:
http://www.citypointcentralmuseum.org/AboutUs.html
  by jbvb
 
The car looks like it could have been a 56-seat P-S lightweight coach at one time, but someone blanked a bunch of windows at the vestibule end. The MEC P-S coaches were numbered 240 - 247, so where #391 comes from I have no idea, and not knowing that, you can't tell what the original name was. Holland's "Passenger Trains of Northern New England in the Streamline Era" is probably the most available reference for the original configuration, but the "Offical Pullman Standard Library Vol. 10" has both plans and builder's photos if you can find/afford it.
  by davidp
 
jbvb wrote:The car looks like it could have been a 56-seat P-S lightweight coach at one time, but someone blanked a bunch of windows at the vestibule end. The MEC P-S coaches were numbered 240 - 247, so where #391 comes from I have no idea, and not knowing that, you can't tell what the original name was. Holland's "Passenger Trains of Northern New England in the Streamline Era" is probably the most available reference for the original configuration, but the "Offical Pullman Standard Library Vol. 10" has both plans and builder's photos if you can find/afford it.
I'm pretty sure its one of the combines with the baggage door having been blanked out. MEC had two, named Forest Queen and Lumber King respectively. In addition to service on the head-end on Boston-Bangor trains, the combines were used on the Rockland and Mountain Division passenger trains, usually as the sole passenger accomodation.

Dave
  by jbvb
 
davidp wrote: I'm pretty sure its one of the combines with the baggage door having been blanked out. MEC had two, named Forest Queen and Lumber King respectively....
Dave
Maybe, but the P-S combines had the baggage compartment at the non-vestibule end. Of course, now that I've looked at pictures, all that marks it as ex-MEC is the web site's word. The window layout has little in common with what MEC coaches or combines had originally, at both the vestibule and the blind end. The trucks are different. The roof vent layout is different. I suppose it could have happened when the MoPac converted Forest Queen to a grill-coach...
  by gokeefe
 
jbvb wrote:
davidp wrote: I'm pretty sure its one of the combines with the baggage door having been blanked out. MEC had two, named Forest Queen and Lumber King respectively....
Dave
Maybe, but the P-S combines had the baggage compartment at the non-vestibule end. Of course, now that I've looked at pictures, all that marks it as ex-MEC is the web site's word. The window layout has little in common with what MEC coaches or combines had originally, at both the vestibule and the blind end. The trucks are different. The roof vent layout is different. I suppose it could have happened when the MoPac converted Forest Queen to a grill-coach...
Keep in mind that these coaches came directly from Guilford who, theoretically, would have acquired them as part of their takeover of the combined B&M/MEC company in 1983. The idea that this car would have been reacquired into the company fleet from MOPAC seems highly unlikely. Furthermore, my understanding is that MEC assets, including their motive power, went from MEC to MOPAC not the other way around.

Interesting discussion.
  by jbvb
 
Not finding anything else in the first few Google screens, I got out my 1951 ORPTE and with the help of various books put together a basic MEC passenger roster to go with my B&M roster:

http://www.faracresfarm.com/jbvb/rr/mecrr/mec_pass.html

It does answer the original question of names to numbers. I've yet to do motor cars and milk equipment. I know a bit more about renumberings than I've put in, but I believe these were mostly pre-WWII. Comments welcome.
  by gokeefe
 
So according to this roster, the 'MEC #391' at City Point Central R.R. is probably not MEC heritage at all considering that apparently the Everything Must Go! sign was hung in the window when MEC terminated passenger service in 1960.

So what's the deal is 'MEC #391' the only known surviving piece of streamlined MEC passenger equipment or not?

On another note Mr. Jbvb you may want to consider finding a way to add the information on your websites to Wikipedia. I haven't looked at the MEC or B&M Wikis lately but I'm sure the information you have could add to their value considerably and I think it might be fair to say it would be preserved for quite some time to come.
  by jhdeasy
 
gokeefe wrote:City Point Central Railroad has a lightweight passenger car from Maine Central. It is probably one of the only lightweight MEC cars still preserved in Maine today. The road number was MEC #391.

What is the name of this car? What was the factory configuration etc.?

City Point Central Railroad Museum Web page "About Us" w/two photos of MEC #391:
http://www.citypointcentralmuseum.org/AboutUs.html
From my viewpoint, the car in the photos identified as MEC 391 looks a lot like a former NYC/PC/Amtrak 50 seat snack bar coach; these were rebuilt in the 1960s from Pullman Standard 64 seat coaches built for NYC in 1946. Pullman plan 7484, production lot 6721. Those cars were used in Amtrak's Empire Service until they were displaced by Turboliners and Amfleet and retired in the second half of the 1970s. They were numbered 3951 thru 3970 on the Amtrak roster.

Those Pullman Standard lightweight coaches built for NYC suffered from the problem of cosmetic stainless steel fluting panels installed over Corten alloy steel, which proved to be a great recipe for corrosion. I doubt many of them survived until today. I know that none of them are Amtrak or Via Rail Canada certified private cars today.