ARC Tunnel - Revisited (Again)

michaelk wrote:Price went from like 20 to closer to 50. So now we drive more then take the train...I took my boys to the game today- first time this year- didn't even bother with the train. Rather I drove and then on the way home got stuck in traffic for an hour to travel the first ~5 miles because the Alexander Hamilton bridge and Major Deegan interchange is being reconstructed.

Tommy Meehan wrote:if you're up at 4:28 AM reading and replying to a RR.Net thread you don't care about, you probably need professional help.

Patrick Boylan wrote:nope, no evidence one way or the other as to what demographic actually is interested in, will be interested in, or gets or will get benefit from cross Hudson infrastructure.

Lucy Vandenberg of [i]PlanSmart NJ[/i] wrote:From 1970 to 2009, the number of New Jersey residents who work in Manhattan has doubled, and from 1990 to 2009, about 85 percent of the growth of commuters into NYC was from Northern New Jersey and the western Hudson Valley across the Hudson River.

Tommy Meehan wrote:

michaelk wrote:Price went from like 20 to closer to 50. So now we drive more then take the train...I took my boys to the game today- first time this year- didn't even bother with the train. Rather I drove and then on the way home got stuck in traffic for an hour to travel the first ~5 miles because the Alexander Hamilton bridge and Major Deegan interchange is being reconstructed.

I didn't realize you were a Yankee fan. That changes everything! haha Hey at least your boys saw a good game Saturday.

Seriously, I think I know what you're saying, and your comments should be read by everyone in management at NJ Transit. So maybe if there was a one-seat Raritan Line ride to Macy's Basement you'd still be riding on Saturdays? Just as an aside, have you considered driving, not all the way to the Stadium, but to another train station? How far are you from a Midtown Direct station?

My point is, there's probably been very little dropoff in ridership because ARC was cancelled but in the future it might have an impact. A big impact. But I really see that as a ways off.

As for Mr. Boylan's questions, 1) do you have any evidence to the contrary (non-New Jerseyeans had little interest in ARC) and 2) yes if you're up at 4:28 AM reading and replying to a RR.Net thread you don't care about, you probably need professional help.

Patrick Boylan wrote:michaelk, you're quoting Tommy Meehan. Looks like you commited copy and paste without correct cut and made it look like my quote.

Tommy Meehan wrote: As has been mentioned in this thread, there doesn't seem to BE an Amtrak Gateway thread. I don't see one listed at any rate. A topic search on "Gateway" returns no hits. A word search on Gateway in the Amtrak Forum only returned a few posts in the thread about Moynihan Station. (When I've looked at it the discussion doesn't seem to touch on the Gateway plan very much.)

In other words I'm not sure there is an Amtrak Gateway thread. Which strongly suggests by the way, as I mentioned to Michael K, the people who mostly care about all of this are people in New Jersey. (Which is why it's here.)

....

michaelk wrote:

Tommy Meehan wrote:

michaelk wrote:Price went from like 20 to closer to 50. So now we drive more then take the train...I took my boys to the game today- first time this year- didn't even bother with the train. Rather I drove and then on the way home got stuck in traffic for an hour to travel the first ~5 miles because the Alexander Hamilton bridge and Major Deegan interchange is being reconstructed.

I didn't realize you were a Yankee fan. That changes everything! haha Hey at least your boys saw a good game Saturday.

Seriously, I think I know what you're saying, and your comments should be read by everyone in management at NJ Transit. So maybe if there was a one-seat Raritan Line ride to Macy's Basement you'd still be riding on Saturdays? Just as an aside, have you considered driving, not all the way to the Stadium, but to another train station? How far are you from a Midtown Direct station?

My point is, there's probably been very little dropoff in ridership because ARC was cancelled but in the future it might have an impact. A big impact. But I really see that as a ways off.

As for Mr. Boylan's questions, 1) do you have any evidence to the contrary (non-New Jerseyeans had little interest in ARC) and 2) yes if you're up at 4:28 AM reading and replying to a RR.Net thread you don't care about, you probably need professional help.

I actually live in the Flemington area- if I recall Hunterdon is one of the few (only?) counties without rail service of some kind in the state. So I already have to drive 25ish minutes up 202 to Raritan Station. I could drive maybe 40-50 minutes to NEC or midtown Direct. But once I'm in the car that far I might as well finish the rest of the schlep to the stadium anyway. There are times when I've driven to Hoboken, Secaucus Junction, or even Newark to park and take a train into the NYC, but there needs to be some other factor going on to make those worth it (like I'm meeting someone coming from those directions, or the like)

So a one seat ride to Macy's (and presumably an in station transfer to the B or the D) would certainly have peeked my interest.

But for ARC 2 /Gateway my real dream is a tunnel to Penn which then pops out the east side of the station, jigs under/over the water tunnel and turns hard left to Grand Central where it hooks into Metro North and continues north to their NEW Yankee Stadium Stop. Toss in the wacky dream the Pol's here have to get rail back into Flemington, and for good measure demo and rebuild the high level stations on the Raritan Valley to add back the express tracks, triple track Aldene to Hunter (that's the LV junction on the NEC- correct?), oh and build the flyover at Hunter and THEN I'll be happy. Well probably I'll want them to reinstate the kids for free deal so I can take the great grandchildren with me to the game. Oh and dont raise my fare more than inflation in the mean time. LAUGHING!!!!!

There's really only so much that can be done and seems with budgets what they are it's not getting better anytime soon, so for now it just is what it is.

michaelk wrote:

Tommy Meehan wrote:

michaelk wrote:Price went from like 20 to closer to 50. So now we drive more then take the train...I took my boys to the game today- first time this year- didn't even bother with the train. Rather I drove and then on the way home got stuck in traffic for an hour to travel the first ~5 miles because the Alexander Hamilton bridge and Major Deegan interchange is being reconstructed.

I didn't realize you were a Yankee fan. That changes everything! haha Hey at least your boys saw a good game Saturday.

Seriously, I think I know what you're saying, and your comments should be read by everyone in management at NJ Transit. So maybe if there was a one-seat Raritan Line ride to Macy's Basement you'd still be riding on Saturdays? Just as an aside, have you considered driving, not all the way to the Stadium, but to another train station? How far are you from a Midtown Direct station?

My point is, there's probably been very little dropoff in ridership because ARC was cancelled but in the future it might have an impact. A big impact. But I really see that as a ways off.

As for Mr. Boylan's questions, 1) do you have any evidence to the contrary (non-New Jerseyeans had little interest in ARC) and 2) yes if you're up at 4:28 AM reading and replying to a RR.Net thread you don't care about, you probably need professional help.

Hunterdon Coutny in fact has 4 train stations: White House, Lebanon, Annandale, and High Bridge. Service is limited compared to service east of Raritan, and there is no weekend service, but enough trains run to make it doable for a commute.

Instead of ensuring every little far-flung exurban hamlet has service however, we should focus on improving service in the core of the metropolitan area, including a new Hudson River crossing (hopefully in the form of Gateway), encouraging urban and inner-suburban infill and redevelopment as opposed to spoiling more of our state's countryside with auto-centric subdivisions. The amount of fossil fuels a Hunterdon County to NYC commute burns, whether it is by car or train, is a lot more than a commute from closer in.

I actually live in the Flemington area- if I recall Hunterdon is one of the few (only?) counties without rail service of some kind in the state. So I already have to drive 25ish minutes up 202 to Raritan Station. I could drive maybe 40-50 minutes to NEC or midtown Direct. But once I'm in the car that far I might as well finish the rest of the schlep to the stadium anyway. There are times when I've driven to Hoboken, Secaucus Junction, or even Newark to park and take a train into the NYC, but there needs to be some other factor going on to make those worth it (like I'm meeting someone coming from those directions, or the like)

So a one seat ride to Macy's (and presumably an in station transfer to the B or the D) would certainly have peeked my interest.

But for ARC 2 /Gateway my real dream is a tunnel to Penn which then pops out the east side of the station, jigs under/over the water tunnel and turns hard left to Grand Central where it hooks into Metro North and continues north to their NEW Yankee Stadium Stop. Toss in the wacky dream the Pol's here have to get rail back into Flemington, and for good measure demo and rebuild the high level stations on the Raritan Valley to add back the express tracks, triple track Aldene to Hunter (that's the LV junction on the NEC- correct?), oh and build the flyover at Hunter and THEN I'll be happy. Well probably I'll want them to reinstate the kids for free deal so I can take the great grandchildren with me to the game. Oh and dont raise my fare more than inflation in the mean time. LAUGHING!!!!!

There's really only so much that can be done and seems with budgets what they are it's not getting better anytime soon, so for now it just is what it is.

michaelk wrote:thanks for pointing out the west of raritan stops- I guess the pol's here probably qualify what they say with some BS like "without 7-day rail service"- They have some beef with NJT that they like to spout off at times- I'll have to pay attention to what exactly they say next time.

Anyway- my post was in gest with the pile of dream projects. hence the "LAUGHING" bit.

But anyway- i agree theres no need to make sprawl - and if you read my other posts you'll see i think spending our limited resources (funds, equipment, even tunnel slots) so NJT gets the most bang for the buck and get more people using transit is clearly wisest. But once that is done and there are unlimited resources then why not live it up and serve everyone? So my dream for 100 years from now is all that so that my grand kids or their kids or grandkids have more transit options so they can own less cars or at least use them less. Even a one seat right from Raritan to NYP (that a tunnel built one day would provide) would be a big improvement.

I live in Flemington area because my office is like 3 minutes from my home and my 2 biggest customers (i work at their sites many days) are in Raritan and Hopewell (in other words 25 minutes either place). I used to live in Aberdeen and loved many of the amenities of being that close in to the city (getting to a ball game by train in an easy/quick manner). But I decided to move where my work was so that i could spend another 1-2 hours each day with my kids. I'm amazed at the people around here that work in the city. I dont work just 8hr days, yet they are gone before i wake up in the morning and dont get home till after I've had dinner with my family- to me I'd much rather live in Hoboken if I worked in the city.

michaelk wrote: ......I used to live in Matawan and used every single ticket myself, took NJCL to every game- it was just so easy and quick.....