Amtrak Vermonter / Montrealer

I was speaking to a reporter today in Amherst who stated that Amtrak is going to move the Amherst station stop to a new transportation center in Greenfield.

I told her that I was very up on Amtrak and I hadn't heard anything like that, but I have seen the plan to rebuild the CT River line into the "Knowledge Corridor" but there is a debate about pulling the Vermonter off the NECR after it accepted it when Guildford forced it off.

I know that the Amherst stop part was a confusion but is there a transit center being built in Greenfield to connect it with either the NECR or PAR line?

I've always thought Greenfield should have a station.

The logical route for the Vermonter is from Springfield to Brattlebor via Holyoke, Northampton and Greenfield over the
former Boston & Maine line now operated by Pan Am. This would end the stop for these trains at Amherst.
If the trackage between Springfield and East Northfield is eventually repaired and passenger trains can make reasonable
running time over this line it is very likely that these trains will be rerouted to this route. Doing this will cut at least an
hour and a half and maybe much more from the running time and would allow for a straight away move without the need
to change ends like they are forced to do at Palmer today.
Right now the state of Massachusetts contributes nothing toward the cost of the operation of these trains so they have
nothing to say as to what route or stops that this train will make in Massachusetts if any.
If the NS and Pan Am decide to fix this line up so that a passenger train can run 55 or better for most of the trip, it is my
guess that the above trains will operate over this line.
I guess we will just have to wait and see just what happens over the next few years.
Noel Weaver

Yes...the Vermonter will be running over the B&M....The date i have heard is 2012 for the change.

The state of VT fronts the cash for the train North of Springfield, and has the final say...

Another major reason is the condition of the NECR tracks. If the train moves to the B&M, the feds will foot most of the $$$$ to fix the tracks wheras if the train stays on NECR, the feds will not put in a dime to fix the tracks.

Funny thing here is the train was moved off the B&M many years ago when it was still a thru train to Montreal due to the bad track. Now, due to the NECR's bad track, it's going back.

As I recall Mr. Primrose, you are an Amherst College alum, and I'm sorry to learn that if this (I would presume from funding under ARRA'09) project moves forth, Amherst will be without rail service (guess you will have to drive to future Reunions - don't forget your checkbook). However, all must acknowledge that the reroute over the B&A to Palmer for interchange there to the CV added nothing to ridership potential for The Vermonter and resulted in an operation that could hardly be described as "economical and efficient".

I think my Sister (Smith '64) once rode "the train" home from Northampton to Stamford; I have to wonder if my Niece (Smith '01) even knows you can ride a train anywhere other than between NY and Riverside (whoops, and Clarendon Hills to Chicago when she once visited me out here).

As Mr. ST214 noted, during the later 70's The Montrealer was routed via New London and interchanged there to the CV (anyone wonder why the New London station is Union Station? - now you know). Mr. Weaver, didn't you once fire that job?

As a UMass alum myself, although I have mixed feelings, I think the benefits of this far outweigh the drawbacks. The Amherst station is a pleasant, scenic spot on a quiet side street walking distance from the center of town. If this re-route comes to pass it will be sad to lose the experience of boarding there.

However, there is frequent express bus service from UMass and non-express service from the center of Amherst to downtown Northampton (in my day this was free, but apparently now it will run you $1.25). The move from NECR to CSX in Palmer is time consuming and keeps 55/56 from being competitive with intercity buses between, say, Brattleboro and Springfield or Hartford. Holyoke and Greenfield are large population centers that are currently not served at all. Consider the potential ridership gained by lopping an hour or so off the running time and this move is a no-brainer.

Thinking back to my years in Amherst I would gladly have traded the bus ride to Northampton for elimination of the Palmer interchange and a straight shot to SPG. I think the vast majority of passengers originating at AMM would agree with me.

See also here: Article from Valley Advocate

From the link, I infer that the town of Palmer has been agitating to become a station stop... it's worth mentioning (although the reporter doesn't) that Palmer could still be served by 448/449 assuming the Vermonter is re-routed.

I am sort of an Umass alum, I did a program called National Student Exchange.

I have mixed feelings as well. The ride will be faster and smoother, but I worry about those who will say Northampton is to far to lug suicases.

To me the logical solution would be to extend the springfield shuttles north, and keep the Vermonter where it is, or visa versa.

That way both towns have service.

Is it true about Greenfield getting a stop?

Would this affect the stop at White River Junction? I'm not that familiar with the route, but I have relatives who own an inn near Dartmouth and mentioned that they are served by that station.

Would this affect the stop at White River Junction?

This reversion to the Connecticut Valley Line, should it occur, would presumably not impact which stations are served in Vermont. The two lines in question come together just outside Northfield, Massachusetts, just below the MA/VT border. Trains ride the same track northward from there. The only changes, it would seem, would be shorter schedules to/from points south of Vermont.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: As Mr. ST214 noted, during the later 70's The Montrealer was routed via New London and interchanged there to the CV (anyone wonder why the New London station is Union Station? - now you know). Mr. Weaver, didn't you once fire that job?

The Montrealer was also re-routed over the CV for a time in the mid-late '90s; believe it made station stops in Willimantic and Storrs. I think this was the final routing for the Montreal via Vermont through service before it was discontinued.

The 1989 reinstatement of the Montrealer sent it on the all-CV routing from New London CT to East Alburgh VT. Amherst was the only station stop on the "south end"... Willimantic was added later. Storrs was never a stop on this train. A reroute back onto the Conn River Line in Massachusetts would be a considerable time savings, reduced cost for Vermont, elimination of the CSX running, and most likely increased ridership.

It should be noted that a reroute back to the Conn River Line would require a backup move, albeit only for 1/4 mile or so, which should be able to be accomplished with a conductor on the back with a hose. Personally I don't think 3 new stops in Holyoke, Northampton, and Greenfield are necessary. Northampton was the only intermediate Springfield-Brattleboro stop when the Montrealer ran that way. Perhaps I can see Greenfield but not Holyoke.

Holyoke and Northampton, i'm not sure what the plan is for other than a stop there....

Greenfield is to become a regional intermodal center.

Take a look at the Vermont Agency of Transportation Web site. They're projecting a significant ridership increase when the train is re-routed, and they're proposing to have stops at Holyoke and Greenfield. Not only is this a faster route, with more population, the CSX segment between Palmer and Springfield contributes more than its share of train delays for 55/56.

Yes, there is a short backup required to get into/out of the station in Springfield, but contrast that with the need to run locomotives on both ends of the train, plus "change ends" at Palmer.

Moving back to the original route makes sense on just about every level -- unless you live in Amherst, MA or wish to travel there.

The Montrealer routing over the southern end of the CV was always fun. I was astonished to discover that the connection in New London was a straight-ahead move on signal indication. The connecting track dropped down off the south side of the Amtrak ROW, then curved back underneath the approach to the Amtrak Thames River bridge. I rode the segment once in daylight, on a Mass Bay RRE "triangle trip" from Boston to Brattleboro, returning via Palmer. Nice ride, scenic. There was an original station in Mansfield Depot, CT that had been converted to a restaurant. We stopped there for lunch on the way to Portland, ME a couple of times. Sadly, there was a fire several years ago and it burned to the ground.

shadyjay wrote:It should be noted that a reroute back to the Conn River Line would require a backup move, albeit only for 1/4 mile or so, which should be able to be accomplished with a conductor on the back with a hose.

That's to get in/out of Union Station in Springfield, right?

NellieBly wrote:The Montrealer routing over the southern end of the CV was always fun. I was astonished to discover that the connection in New London was a straight-ahead move on signal indication. The connecting track dropped down off the south side of the Amtrak ROW, then curved back underneath the approach to the Amtrak Thames River bridge. I rode the segment once in daylight, on a Mass Bay RRE "triangle trip" from Boston to Brattleboro, returning via Palmer. Nice ride, scenic. There was an original station in Mansfield Depot, CT that had been converted to a restaurant. We stopped there for lunch on the way to Portland, ME a couple of times. Sadly, there was a fire several years ago and it burned to the ground.

Given that this routing would take a train within a few hundred yards of the Mohegan Sun casino, and within five miles of Foxwoods, I'm rather surprised nobody has ever proposed some kind of ACES-like service on this end of the NECR, with a routing something like NYP-New London-Palmer-BOS. Don't know enough about the track conditions on the CV & the configuration of the interchange at Palmer to know if that's feasible, though.

Ridgefielder wrote:

shadyjay wrote:It should be noted that a reroute back to the Conn River Line would require a backup move, albeit only for 1/4 mile or so, which should be able to be accomplished with a conductor on the back with a hose.

That's to get in/out of Union Station in Springfield, right?

Yes, and that was always the case as well for pre-Amtrak through trains moving between the New Haven and Boston & Maine. There's a straight north-south connection between the former NH and B&M lines, but the Springfield station is on the former Boston & Albany a couple blocks east, so all through trains had to back either in or out. But as Mr. Jay wrote, it was a quick and easy move compared with current time-consuming maneuver via Palmer.

Ridgefielder wrote: Given that this routing would take a train within a few hundred yards of the Mohegan Sun casino, and within five miles of Foxwoods, I'm rather surprised nobody has ever proposed some kind of ACES-like service on this end of the NECR, with a routing something like NYP-New London-Palmer-BOS. Don't know enough about the track conditions on the CV & the configuration of the interchange at Palmer to know if that's feasible, though.

The track layout at Palmer would require a backup for a northbound train on the former CV to head east on the B&A.

There is connecting local bus service between New London station and the casinos. Foxwoods requires a bus anyway since there's no immediate rail access.