Amtrak Tennessee Proposals: Memphis - Nashville - Knoxville - Chattanooga - Atlanta

Wait, go from Nashville to Chattanooga first, and then to Atlanta and Memphis?

Is this person aware that would mean this train would be isolated from the rest of the network?

From Holiday Inn Express Clearfield PA--

Mr. Steamy. this fellow Powell is a State Representative, all he can think of is that Nashville is a "hub" to connect from one Tennessee locality to the other.

"Trackage already owned by CSX??? What's he thinking; the track is simply there for a passenger train to disrupt the Precision Railroading model that, for better or worse, Chessie has adopted.

Spent a lot of time in Tenn. Knoxville - direct to Nashville. Mega mega bucks. Regular rail tine would be slower than just upgrading Knoxville - CHA - Nashville.

Spent a lot of time in Tenn. Knoxville - direct to Nashville. Mega mega bucks. Regular rail tine would be slower than just upgrading Knoxville - CHA - Nashville.

There seems to have once been a Tennesee Central Railroad that ran Knoxville - Harriman - Cookeville - Nashville. Otherwise, the best route seems to be the ex-Southern line Knoxville - Chattanooga, and then the ex-Nashville, Chattanooga and St. Louis to Nashville. It's not nearly as direct, though.

Problem of direct Knoxville - Nashville is ancient geology. Two words Glacier scourings. One of first interstate builds was I-40 between the 2 cities. Drive it curves and grades galore. In this case it might be cheaper to build an electrified track so passenger trains could navigate steeper grades. Diesel only would require more miles of bridges and tunnels.

The TC is taken up for about 30 miles between Crab Orchard and Monterrey TN, and while there’s been proposals to reinstate the trackage, the issue if the line does eventually return is Crossville, because there it passes right through the town and there has been a bit of development. Possible, but unlikely at best.

The gap was caused by 3 companies operating their trackage after the TC disappeared, and I believe it was the Southern that abandoned that portion. I remember seeing a picture of 4501 in Crossville.

On the west end it’s operated by the Nashville and Eastern, seems to be a fairly well kept operation run by RJ Corman, and the east end is run by a mining company.

The two cities being connected makes sense for both freight and passenger, but the terrain means that it would be slow in many places. I-40 will get you between the two in 3 hours, I say don’t expect a train trip to be under 4.5 hours.

Steamguy73 wrote:The TC is taken up for about 30 miles between Crab Orchard and Monterrey TN, and while there’s been proposals to reinstate the trackage, the issue if the line does eventually return is Crossville, because there it passes right through the town and there has been a bit of development. Possible, but unlikely at best.

Tracing out the route against a topographic relief map, it seems the removed section between Carb Orchard and Monterrey is on a plateau where the grades appear relatively gentle. Additionally, the route seems to cross I-40 near both ends of the removed section. I wonder if the route could be realigned to follow I-40 through this area, possibly in the wide median. The way I see it, it would provide a significantly straighter alignment, which would boost average speed, and avoid issues with development encroaching the old ROW through the center of Crossville.

Another issue is the station in Nashville. The line from Knoxville currently terminates at the Riverfront station, which would be completely inadequate as a hub for trains in Nashville. Although Riverfront is well situated in downtown, it is a tiny facility that is awkward even for the 2-car Star commuter trains. Additionally, it lacks good track connections to other lines entering Nashville, requiring circuitous routing and reversing moves to access from most other routes. The direct line to Knoxville would need a connector to reach the area of Union Station.

The section in the median could be faster than 80mph, 25 miles of 100 mph running could make up for the slowdowns from the mountains. In Knoxville, it would be very slow along the water front, to the ramblers station.
Of course, is there enough demand for any of it?

You’re better off repairing the original right of way and tearing down an apartment building built on the north side of Crossville (to my observation the only thing actually blocking the right of way in the abandoned section) than to construct a line on I-40.

Or, even simpler, run Nashville to Chattanooga and then to Knoxville.

Remember; the primary goal here isn’t speed nor should it be. Especially in that part of TN. The first goal for Amtrak is always going to have service period. You can’t know actual demand if the product in question has yet to exist, and it’s better to introduce a slower, but cheaper service than to demand billions for a new right of way.

If there’s a demand for service between Nashville and Knoxville, run service via Chattanooga on existing infrastructure before spending a dime on even thinking about putting track back between Nashville and Knoxville: on the old TC corridor, on I-40, or otherwise.

Based on Amtrak’s guesses with Connects us, a train between Nashville and Chattanooga would be 3 and 1/2 hours. We can assume a train to Knoxville from Chattanooga would probably make it an extra 3 hours. That would not be competitive whatsoever with auto traffic, but that would still be faster than the former TC’s timetable. Those trains took slightly over 8 hours: making them not even average 25 mph.

My guess is if you want direct service from Memphis to Nashville to Knoxville do it by thruway bus. From Memphis to Nashville the Windy route too long & slow. Thruway bus could add Jackson. From Nashville to Knoxville the old TC route stopped at Harriman then picked up Southern rails for the remaining miles. Do this via thruway bus on I-40. Seems to me the state tried it before but low ridership killed it.

Should check if the Chattanooga-Knoxville train could run on to Bristol & Roanoke, connecting with VA trains.

Slow going again the problem Knoxville -Bulls Gap Fast) then slow Bulls Gap - Bristol - Roanoke. Times were almost 4 hours both SOU RR Knoxville - Bristol and N&W RR Bristol - Roanoke, I-81 + I 40 under 4 hours Roanoke - Knoxville. That is when no big "IFS"

Potential impact of passenger rail expansion in Tennessee: WKRN.com

The study lays out several routes in order of priority:

Tier I
Nashville-Chattanooga-Atlanta
Tier II
Memphis-Nashville
Chattanooga-Knoxville-Bristol
Tier III
Memphis-Carbondale (IL)-Chicago
Nashville-Louisville

west point wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2023 12:16 am Slow going again the problem Knoxville -Bulls Gap Fast) then slow Bulls Gap - Bristol - Roanoke. Times were almost 4 hours both SOU RR Knoxville - Bristol and N&W RR Bristol - Roanoke, I-81 + I 40 under 4 hours Roanoke - Knoxville. That is when no big "IFS"

Another question could be if NS could pull some truck traffic off I-40 I-81. Could be new route for TOFC/container train. Anything to pull truck off road before VaDOT spends millions on I-81.

Millions?? No way more like many Billions. Va would do better straightening NS from Maryland to Bristol (about 330 miles) for a track speed of freight intermodal 60 MPH. Without changing the 60 alignments build for sections passenger 90 - 110 MPH much like Brightline. Do ROA - Bristol first as much as possible.

Now Tennessee is another problem. A straight line from Bristol toward Knoxville goes over some very difficult terrain. Even Clinchfield had difficulty going across there from Kingsport - Johnson City. As well I-81 plus crossing rivers and TVA lakes for all. Following SOU route Bristol - Knoxville very difficult to increase speeds.