• Amtrak service temporarily suspended west of Albany

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by west point
 
Was bull Run once used for NY Central trains to Albany station? . Also I was never to spot how NY Central trains got to the east bank from the Albany station. How long demo is planned may find cause for Amtrak to initiate other routes to mitigate the problem. Maybe If the present route to Rensselaer route cannot be used until the building is at least cut back some distance from track. Amtrak may not be able to resume service along with any freight especially HAZ MAT .
I will propose a possible temporary solution although solution not very likely. Demolition is going to be slow due to asbestos removal first.

1. The demolition of the building might get almost all demo funds from a FEMA emergency declaration. NY state could then add funds. The declaration could also add Amtrak mitigation help to the pile of money. A lot of money if whole building is to be demoed.
2. Notice that the SW corner of the building is only about 200 feet from Bull Run. Start demo at the SW corner to increase the distance between Bull and building..
3. Bull run could then be upgraded / restored . Again that wolud depend on length of time the main track will be out of service due to a slow demo. The amount of demo of the building will determineis how long track out of service.
4. Amtrak could even have a station stop somewhere, probably north of Kenworth yard. Too long since being so Is the old NYC Albany station no longer a possible temporaystation?
5. Colonie sub is north of Kenwoerh and the Port sub is south of there.
6. There is a partial wye where Port sub joins Caselton sub but Port trains have to operat to / from Selkirk yard. .
7. It appears the CSX may use that part of Caselton for making up Selkirk trains for Springfield and west bank trains.
8. A new leg at the Port wye could be built east of the wye giving direct eastward Caselton access. That would allow the trains to be pointed in the right directions for present Rensselaer station .
9. The Schodack Sub from Caselton connecting to the Hudson has long distance back ups from there north to Rensselaer.

As said before big delays either way for Empire & Ethan AllenRutland service.

Off topic. If the track is going to be out of service for awhie may be Amtrak could accelerate the planned major rehabe of the Hudson river swing bridge?
  by johnpbarlow
 
Railjunkie, when you say the engineer will reverse ends at CP187 where B&A and Post Road meet, that implies to me that every train operating west of Albany/Rensselaer will have locomotives at both ends. Would every Empire Service train and 48/49 be so configured? Is an 11 mile reverse move on the Post Rd between A/R and 187 with conductor guiding out of the question? It looks like there are a half dozen grade crossings on the Post Rd including a couple that cross major roads. Thanks.
  by taracer
 
west point wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:52 am Was bull Run once used for NY Central trains to Albany station? . Also I was never to spot how NY Central trains got to the east bank from the Albany station.
There was a second bridge south of the current bridge and the old station that the passenger trains used. There was a Bull Run yard, but I believe the current Bull Run track dates from when the area was reconfigured in the late 60's.

CP did use the current Bull Run to exercise legacy D&H trackage rights to Troy until about 10 years ago. I know for sure that Interstate Commodities in Troy, which is now out of business, was serviced by both CSX and CP.
  by Allouette
 
The alternative to the Post Road backup move is to reverse down the Hudson line to the CSX connector track at Stuyvesant. I'm sure crews will get qualifying runs over both routes, as that would give both Amtrak and CSX dispatchers maximum flexibility.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Railjunkie wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:58 am
The route for westward trains will be as follows.

Out the Post Road to CP187 where the engineer will change ends then proceed on the B&A across the Alfred H Smith bridge going through Selkirk yard on the new bypass tracks then onto Voorheesville where if you know where to look you can see where the D&H Albany Main once crossed on a diamond. A little bit later you will go through South Schenectady yard were the Carmen Branch starts its run over to the Hudson sub. Then its down the hill and over the Mohawk River to CP169. All of this will be rare mileage on the CSX Selkirk Sub.
SOOOOO Mr. Junkie, it appears the "detour of detours" WILL occur after all?

The Late Mr. Weaver likely would have known "off the top of his head", but when did a passenger train last operate over the Alfred Holland?

The "classic" May 1959 TRAINS presenting DPM's "Who Shot The Passenger Train" first presented how the NYC should move their station to Rensselaer and would be able to eliminate the solely passenger bridge, noted by Mr. Taracer, to the former Albany Station (believe the structure remains standing; but of course defer to Mr. Junkie).

Now addressing the instant matter, judging from Mr. Junkie's report, the restoration of the embargoed line is more in the hands of the barristers than anyone else, but has any "passably authoritative" estimate been circulated regarding when the trackage will be restored?

Now finally on the Station to CP187? Might it be more feasible simply to have a Yard crew handle this move and save towing scarce motive power all the way to Niagra Falls (to CHI on 48-49????)? There might be need to put an additional Yard job on and "scour up" an additional 5XX P-32 for these moves, but "it would just seem more efficient".
Last edited by Gilbert B Norman on Sun Jul 31, 2022 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
  by taracer
 
Allouette wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:33 am The alternative to the Post Road backup move is to reverse down the Hudson line to the CSX connector track at Stuyvesant. I'm sure crews will get qualifying runs over both routes, as that would give both Amtrak and CSX dispatchers maximum flexibility.
That's how they did it when service to Boston was restored before the Post Road was rebuilt.
  by taracer
 
I don't think any revenue passenger train went across the whole length of the bridge, the move mentioned above just required head room on the bridge since the west end of CP-SM is on the bridge.

Before the bypass tracks were installed you would have to go through the yard either though the East End or the Inbound, the East End being all hand thrown switches and the Inbound an electric switch controlled by the hump yardmaster. Highly unlikely this was ever done for a revenue passenger move.

Now you can do it via dispatcher controlled main track.
  by Ken W2KB
 
NaugyRR wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:21 am I'm curious if Amtrak is going to go after the owner of the building, since the the city hasn't actually seized the building from him yet. $500k in back taxes may be the least of his issues now.
One of the press reports linked in this thread states: "the owner, the Phoenix of Albany LLC, which is solely owned by Evan Blum".

I strongly suspect that the only asset of Phoenix of Albany LLC, the legal owner of the building according to that press report, consists of this building property which appears to have a negative value. Hence, any such effort by Amtrak or any other party to recover damages from the limited liability corporation owner would not likely make economic sense. The taxpayers of the City of Albany will probably wind up absorbing the cost of demolition offset only by the value of the land.
Last edited by Ken W2KB on Sun Jul 31, 2022 10:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
  by R.B.Phillips
 
49 went through Elkhart this morning having not been turned (baggage, NY sleepers, diner, six Amfleet coaches, cafe, Boston sleeper).
  by taracer
 
Ken W2KB wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:54 am
NaugyRR wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:21 am I'm curious if Amtrak is going to go after the owner of the building, since the the city hasn't actually seized the building from him yet. $500k in back taxes may be the least of his issues now.
One of the press reports linked in this thread states: "the owner, the Phoenix of Albany LLC, which is solely owned by Evan Blum".

I strongly suspect that the only asset of Phoenix of Albany LLC, the legal owner of the building according to that press report, consists of this building property which appears to have a negative value. Hence, any such effort by Amtrak or any other party to recover damages from the limited liability corporation owner would not likely make economic sense. The taxpayers of the City of Albany will probably wind up absorbing the cost of demolition offset only by the value of the land.
I agree that this is what will happen, just another case of privatizing profits and socializing losses. It will be good to see this relic from another era finally be removed though.
  by Railjunkie
 
johnpbarlow wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:45 am Railjunkie, when you say the engineer will reverse ends at CP187 where B&A and Post Road meet, that implies to me that every train operating west of Albany/Rensselaer will have locomotives at both ends. Would every Empire Service train and 48/49 be so configured? Is an 11 mile reverse move on the Post Rd between A/R and 187 with conductor guiding out of the question? It looks like there are a half dozen grade crossings on the Post Rd including a couple that cross major roads. Thanks.
Have not seen the operational plan as of yet but if I were to guess I doubt it will be a back up move at 30mph vs going along at 60mph on the Post Road. This little detour is going to add about an hours time with the addition and subtraction of engines and changing ends.
  by Railjunkie
 
west point wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:52 am Was bull Run once used for NY Central trains to Albany station? . Also I was never to spot how NY Central trains got to the east bank from the Albany station. How long demo is planned may find cause for Amtrak to initiate other routes to mitigate the problem. Maybe If the present route to Rensselaer route cannot be used until the building is at least cut back some distance from track. Amtrak may not be able to resume service along with any freight especially HAZ MAT .
I will propose a possible temporary solution although solution not very likely. Demolition is going to be slow due to asbestos removal first.

1. The demolition of the building might get almost all demo funds from a FEMA emergency declaration. NY state could then add funds. The declaration could also add Amtrak mitigation help to the pile of money. A lot of money if whole building is to be demoed.
2. Notice that the SW corner of the building is only about 200 feet from Bull Run. Start demo at the SW corner to increase the distance between Bull and building..
3. Bull run could then be upgraded / restored . Again that wolud depend on length of time the main track will be out of service due to a slow demo. The amount of demo of the building will determineis how long track out of service.
4. Amtrak could even have a station stop somewhere, probably north of Kenworth yard. Too long since being so Is the old NYC Albany station no longer a possible temporaystation?
5. Colonie sub is north of Kenwoerh and the Port sub is south of there.
6. There is a partial wye where Port sub joins Caselton sub but Port trains have to operat to / from Selkirk yard. .
7. It appears the CSX may use that part of Caselton for making up Selkirk trains for Springfield and west bank trains.
8. A new leg at the Port wye could be built east of the wye giving direct eastward Caselton access. That would allow the trains to be pointed in the right directions for present Rensselaer station .
9. The Schodack Sub from Caselton connecting to the Hudson has long distance back ups from there north to Rensselaer.

As said before big delays either way for Empire & Ethan AllenRutland service.

Off topic. If the track is going to be out of service for awhie may be Amtrak could accelerate the planned major rehabe of the Hudson river swing bridge?
Maiden Lane bridge was the passenger bridge south of LAB about were the bridge that crosses into Rennselaer off 787.
Your point number two is moot. Canadian Pacific if they are running hauls ethanol trains by the SW corner of the building almost everyday. Our line is elevated over them.

Points 4-6 I don't think CP is going to allow Amtrak to set up a temporary station in or around Kenwood yard. It has become one of their busier yards. Bull Run is OOS and to put it back in service would/may require CP to replace a switch that they will never use? Good luck. The Port Sub is single track 25mph railroad at least that was the speed as of my CSX 2008 ETT. It maybe slower now.

To use the Schodack Sub CP125 again your talking an engine on both ends or a back up move of 16 and change miles at 15mph vs 110mph with the engineer leading.

So I guess it looks like the B&A over the bridge to Selkirk then west to the Mohawk.

Now for something completely different. Over the past few months there has been some other activity around this area and it has to do with the old cantankerous PIA bridge known as LAB. Some drilling has occurred on both the south and north sides looking for good bedrock. Why you ask?? well if your going to build a new bridge you need good footings and the south side has the best. IF everything goes as planned a new bridge should be in place by 2027. Plans are drawn and "shovel ready".
  by taracer
 
Agree that all the things that post brings up won't happen, and Bull Run is OOS at the least. I won't say abandoned because I made that mistake in another thread. The switch on the CP side is removed, the parts are still sitting there, but off to the side and it is straight tracked. The line is severely overgrown as well.

I don't want to doxx myself, but it will take two crews to pilot from CP187 on the B&A to CP169 on the Mohawk.
  by Railjunkie
 
taracer wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:53 am Agree that all the things that post brings up won't happen, and Bull Run is OOS at the least. I won't say abandoned because I made that mistake in another thread. The switch on the CP side is removed, the parts are still sitting there, but off to the side and it is straight tracked. The line is severely overgrown as well.

I don't want to doxx myself, but it will take two crews to pilot from CP187 on the B&A to CP169 on the Mohawk.
Yes it will, the regular assigned train crew and the pilot crew. I think the drop off and pick up point will be Amsterdam. I'm not sure how many pilot crews they want to have currently there is one crew qualifying the territory.
  by STrRedWolf
 
Railjunkie wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:58 am The route for westward trains will be as follows.

Out the Post Road to CP187 where the engineer will change ends then proceed on the B&A across the Alfred H Smith bridge going through Selkirk yard on the new bypass tracks then onto Voorheesville where if you know where to look you can see where the D&H Albany Main once crossed on a diamond. A little bit later you will go through South Schenectady yard were the Carmen Branch starts its run over to the Hudson sub. Then its down the hill and over the Mohawk River to CP169. All of this will be rare mileage on the CSX Selkirk Sub.
This matches what I said earlier, so confirmed. Schenectady gets serviced.
Now onto the building this whole thing started on the same day the current owner lost his court case for bankruptcy I believe and is on the hook 550K in back taxes which I'm sure will be 600K by the end of the year. Someone, no one knows whom for sure reported seeing debris on the tracks. After all the westbound trains had departed Albany. Yes there are debris on the tracks, the siding tracks that haven't seen cars in 30 years. Ten Amtrak and a CSX train or two go by the south side (the side in question) of that building everyday. I am pretty sure if one of my fellow Albany engineers saw chunks of concrete in the gauge he would report it. Yet the CP which comes out of the port of Rennselaer with ethanol and such is still chugging away I believe.

Man lifts there today not sure what they were looking at or getting ready to do. Its Albany and now politicians are involved this could take forever.
From overhead shots in the newspapers, the chunks of concrete are within 5 meters of the rail. The building itself is tall enough that falling over one side will block the track and hit automobiles in the adjacent parking lot.

I would not be surprised if the building gets demolished... and would be very pleasantly surprised if they called Maryland's Controlled Demolition Inc to do the job. (I saw a "how do they do it" on one of their demo jobs)
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