• Amtrak service temporarily suspended west of Albany

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by Railjunkie
 
west point wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:08 pm It may be CP tracks are more likely to have debri? Anyone?
I do not ever recall seeing any debris on the CP (west) side of the building. Of course I do not recall seeing much debris at all anywhere around the building. Went west today for a re familiarization to Syracuse trip and did notice a man lift on that side of the building, what they were doing???
  by Mackensen
 
eolesen wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:19 pm Sure, we all want to talk about the trains here, but don't fault some of us for caring how they're paid for.

As already pointed out, the freight rolling by never stopped. They appear to have decided the risk to their property is minimal and manageable. If CSX truly saw this as a threat, they'd close down the tracks. They didn't.
Well, yes. Continuing to run loaded passenger trains past a derelict building would have been a public relations and litigation nightmare if anything had gone wrong, to say nothing of the potential harm to passengers. It's a completely different calculus for CSX running a few locals. I mean, I'm sorry, what's even the claim here?
  by Railjunkie
 
Mackensen wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:16 am
eolesen wrote: Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:19 pm Sure, we all want to talk about the trains here, but don't fault some of us for caring how they're paid for.

As already pointed out, the freight rolling by never stopped. They appear to have decided the risk to their property is minimal and manageable. If CSX truly saw this as a threat, they'd close down the tracks. They didn't.
Well, yes. Continuing to run loaded passenger trains past a derelict building would have been a public relations and litigation nightmare if anything had gone wrong, to say nothing of the potential harm to passengers. It's a completely different calculus for CSX running a few locals. I mean, I'm sorry, what's even the claim here?
Let me help you all.

When the tracks were OOS aka Out Of Service nothing I mean nothing went by the south side of the building. I don't care if it had CSX or Amtrak plastered on the side the tracks were barricaded and that was that.

CP which runs on the ground level on the west side of the building still continued to move trains into and out of their Kenwood Yard, it was reported at first that all RR operations around the building has ceased but that turned out to be a false claim.

Albany County and The City of Albany played a hand in shutting down the RR also that is the political side of things if you feel the need Google Central Warehouse and I'm sure the Times Useless Oops I mean the Times Union will have plenty of articles.

At the time of the original claim of loose and falling debris some of that debris had been there for years and had not effected the movement of trains possibly in like forever. Tracks are inspected weekly if not daily and used by 10 to 12 trains a day. If something was in the way I am pretty sure it would have been reported. Engineers don't like hitting things especially things that could do damage to the engine and cause confusion and delay.

If Amtrak had so chose they could have taken track 1 OOS. This is the track closest to the building and kept track 2 open with the protection of a flagman or a stop sign while the work was being done. They did not.

At this time we are once again running those same 10 to 12 trains a day past the south wall of the Central Warehouse. Few things have changed a little concrete is missing here and there, smoke stack is down and a few metal window frames are gone. The wall itself is still pulling away from the building just as it was before the only difference for the operation of trains is the temporary speed restriction of 15mph through the area. What was the speed before you ask? 25mph.
  by Greg Moore
 
There you go interjecting facts in to the discussion.

Seriously though thanks.
  by Railjunkie
 
For those who want to grab some pics of Amtrak in odd places the qualifying runs have begun again between Albany and Hoffmans via the Post Road across the bridge to the Selkirk and out to Hoffmans. Not sure how many more they are going to do, only 2 round trips today.
  by STrRedWolf
 
Railjunkie wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:16 am If Amtrak had so chose they could have taken track 1 OOS. This is the track closest to the building and kept track 2 open with the protection of a flagman or a stop sign while the work was being done. They did not.
That would be negligible mitigation against if the building actually fell on the track. Remember, I posted about what could happen if the building fell about 5 pages back in this thread.
The building is 104 feet in height. If the sides were to flatten down...
  • CP's Colonie Main Line would shut down.
  • CSX Hudson Subdivision would shut down.
  • Some stuff would come down on Water Street
  • Colonie Street would be blocked but not isolated...
  • A good chunk of the Water Street NY State Parking lot would be closed off, forcing folks to park under I-787.
  • I-787 may need inspection for the resulting shaking earth but will probably shrug it off.
Let me expand on "CSX Hudson Subdivision would shut down." and "A good chunk of the Water Street NY State Parking lot would be closed off, forcing folks to park under I-787." When I said that, I meant the building would cover and damage both tracks, and possibly land in the parking lot, damaging cars as well. Trains passing by at time of collapse would be hit, causing damage, injuries on passenger trains, and possibly death.

So until things were shored up so they wouldn't collapse (or collapse away from the track), Amtrak and CSX saw money savings by preventing lawsuits being filed because they rolled the dice and it came up, in D&D terms, a Critical Fail.

By the way, the latest on the building has the following:
  • Notice on needed repair work was sent to the owner.
  • An updated notice will be sent with updated timelines, along with an updated bill expected to be north of $140K.
  • A previous violation notice round up in court and the city won $78.8K... which hasn't been paid and the city is undergoing collections to recover the money.
  • The owner doubts the violations and wants to fight it in numerous courts.
  • The owner hasn't paid the past taxes of $550K and it's about lose the property at a tax sale.
  by Greg Moore
 
Exactly. The concern isn't a brick or two landing on the tracks.
It's the entire sidewall coming down in a cascade and taking out a train as it's going by. 104' of block and concrete is nothing to sneeze at.
  by Railjunkie
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:38 pm
Railjunkie wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:16 am If Amtrak had so chose they could have taken track 1 OOS. This is the track closest to the building and kept track 2 open with the protection of a flagman or a stop sign while the work was being done. They did not.
That would be negligible mitigation against if the building actually fell on the track. Remember, I posted about what could happen if the building fell about 5 pages back in this thread.
The building is 104 feet in height. If the sides were to flatten down...
  • CP's Colonie Main Line would shut down.
  • CSX Hudson Subdivision would shut down.
  • Some stuff would come down on Water Street
  • Colonie Street would be blocked but not isolated...
  • A good chunk of the Water Street NY State Parking lot would be closed off, forcing folks to park under I-787.
  • I-787 may need inspection for the resulting shaking earth but will probably shrug it off.
Let me expand on "CSX Hudson Subdivision would shut down." and "A good chunk of the Water Street NY State Parking lot would be closed off, forcing folks to park under I-787." When I said that, I meant the building would cover and damage both tracks, and possibly land in the parking lot, damaging cars as well. Trains passing by at time of collapse would be hit, causing damage, injuries on passenger trains, and possibly death.

So until things were shored up so they wouldn't collapse (or collapse away from the track), Amtrak and CSX saw money savings by preventing lawsuits being filed because they rolled the dice and it came up, in D&D terms, a Critical Fail.

By the way, the latest on the building has the following:
  • Notice on needed repair work was sent to the owner.
  • An updated notice will be sent with updated timelines, along with an updated bill expected to be north of $140K.
  • A previous violation notice round up in court and the city won $78.8K... which hasn't been paid and the city is undergoing collections to recover the money.
  • The owner doubts the violations and wants to fight it in numerous courts.
  • The owner hasn't paid the past taxes of $550K and it's about lose the property at a tax sale.
The difference between then and now is??? Its late I will look for your update later this afternoon.

Nah, I will save you the trouble. The only thing done to the building is the removal of loose impediments and a smoke stack. The south wall is still pulling away and trains are still rolling past at 15mph. I just went by the building last Friday and only noticed cosmetic changes. To lag the walls back together one would think you would need more than four hard hats and a couple of man lifts which is about the only equipment that was there during the shut down.
  by BandA
 
To quote c3po's report on the Central Warehouse
That's funny, the damage doesn't look as bad from out here
They could combine the idea of building a shed with building a temporary track on the bridge as far from the building as possible. They could score the concrete so that it falls apart in small pieces (that last idea is kind of a joke).

The Professional Engineer laid out what is needed to stabilize the facade, using stainless steel bolts, etc. That building must have been very heavy-duty industrial age construction. It has withstood a multi-alarm fire and decades of neglect. The best idea would be to demolish the facade on the track side and eventually all sides, remove all debris from inside, then if it is worth keeping stabilize the roof & replace columns as needed or remove the top floor.
  by STrRedWolf
 
Railjunkie wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:52 pm Nah, I will save you the trouble. The only thing done to the building is the removal of loose impediments and a smoke stack. The south wall is still pulling away and trains are still rolling past at 15mph. I just went by the building last Friday and only noticed cosmetic changes. To lag the walls back together one would think you would need more than four hard hats and a couple of man lifts which is about the only equipment that was there during the shut down.
Apparently CSX and Amtrak think the risk of a taller smokestack plus the knock-on effect of a wall falling down was much greater than the entire wall falling down, so is willing to slap a slow-order on the track once the stack was down. It's still going to suck hard if the timing is juuuust right.

To a person outside looking in... the risk of both still feels too great to risk an accident and impending lawsuits. Yeah, the stacks were like 99% likely to fall down if someone looked at them funny (and there were a lot of people doing that), but the building's at a, what, 80% chance of falling down without remediation?

Could everyone sigh a breath of relief if the building was just plain-old demolished? Sure! Going to happen soon?

Not this year, if this latest TimesUnion article is accurate. In summary, the owner (Evan Blum) has until:
  • Sept 16th to "all roof, windows and doors weathertight; seal the exposed concrete along the upper southeast corner of the building; remove all combustible materials and graffiti and register the building as a vacant building."
  • Oct 18th to hire an engineer and perform a structural condition assessment to be submitted by Dec 18th.
  • Nov 18th to install safety netting along the eastern and southern walls to restrain any further debris falling off.
The second deadline is interesting because Blum has cast doubt that the repairs ordered by the city are needed. So the city's saying "Okay, get your engineer out there and have him say what's needed to be repaired." Or, in other words, "put up or shut up."

Given Blum's history... I think it'll go to the courts and they're going to say to him "Nope, you owe big time."
  by BandA
 
Anything beyond a quick-fix will require some kind of diversion or annulment for at least a short time.

The building is probably quite massive, and overbuilt compared to modern buildings. So it might be worth keeping. But the double-wall with moldy burnt cork facade is not worth keeping - demo it and put up some blue tarps to keep the weather out. I thought the owner was already foreclosed.
  by STrRedWolf
 
Update from the Times-Union on Sept 16th: Central Warehouse owner misses key repair deadline. Owner Evan Blum missed the Sept 16th deadline to at least start repairs... and cites a conspiracy to take the building away to better developers. Says he's willing to pay the back taxes now.

Nothing on the Oct 16th deadline...

EDIT TO ADD: AAAAAnd it's gone. Evan Blum just lost the building. Evan Blum finally loses Central Warehouse but legal troubles still loom
ALBANY, N.Y. (NEWS10) — After more than 60 years of being labeled the local “eyesore”, the Central Warehouse is finally under Albany County’s management. A judge ruling in favor of foreclosing a lien the county placed on the property at 143 Montgomery Street after now former owner, Evan Blum, failed to pay more than $500,000 in back owed property taxes.

“This door is closed and another door is opening up,” says Albany County Executive Dan McCoy.

As NEWS10 has reported, Albany County accepted a bid from an LLC joint owned by Redburn Development and Columbia Development to redesign the Central Warehouse into a mixed use space. McCoy says the next step now is to have representatives from both companies take a look inside.
  by NYCRRson
 
McCoy says the next step now is to have representatives from both companies take a look inside.
Har Har Har, now that the gubermint owns this eyesore they are all set to convert it to "multiple use",,,,, And all they have to do is take a "quick look inside"....

So in summary;

The last owner (who thought he could make something useful of this property) defaulted on the taxes.

The gubermint (who lost all of the tax dollars they thought they would scoop up) now owns a property that nobody in that last 50 years has made any profit off of and now thinks they can make "lots of money" off of and the gubermint's first action is to "look inside".....

Gubermint, the root of all our problems....
  by daybeers
 
What would you propose as another solution? Doesn't nobody know what's inside and what the building's interior condition is?
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