Amtrak’s Growing Pains with Siemens Locomotives

Tadman wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:03 pm

RandallW wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 5:36 am Metra's F40s do not draw HEP off the prime mover, but carry a separate generator, while Amtrak's F40s and P42s draw HEP from the prime mover. I understand it's a trade off between available horsepower and maintenance costs.

Metra's F40's do indeed have crankshaft-driven HEP which is why they call them screamers. I lived there for years and walked past them at the north end of the north concourse in CUS where they were very loud. Perhaps you are thinking of the MP36, some of which are pony motor-driven and some are inverter driven HEP.

Turns out the P42 can use a traction inverter to power HEP in stations, but when pulling the train the HEP draws off the alternator and the engine must run at 900rpm.

Can you provide some info, i have always believed that a p42 draw HEP from a second HEP generator in standymode at 720 rpm or 900 rpm when in traction mode.

RandallW wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2024 5:36 am Metra's F40s do not draw HEP off the prime mover, but carry a separate generator

You've definitely confused the MP36's with the F40PH's. As Tadman said, the MP36's have a standalone generator, and the EMD's are tied to the prime mover. Given the amount of time they spend in motion vs. stopped to provide HEP, it's probably a wash on the fuel savings.

You're right sorry about that.

NGEC via Discord.

Looks like significant improvements across the board in the last year.
NGEC Slides

Is this slide deck on a PDF somewhere or is it just on a Discord server you're on?

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 1:20 pm Is this slide deck on a PDF somewhere or is it just on a Discord server you're on?

Added link to the slides in my post above: NGEC Slides

The emissions system issues don't surprise me. I work in the ag equipment industry and the OEM's are still trying to figure out a system that really works. Of course it doesn't help with the engines being built by a different OEM than the chassis (both rail and ag), it just adds another complication into the loop.

That's not all to say that I'm against emissions controls, I would like to live out the rest of my years without moving to Mars... but I do know that DPF and SCR systems can be a rotten pain in the ass!

Isn't the 10th slide in that deck suggesting the ALC-42s were more reliable than the P42s in 2023?

RandallW wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 8:20 pm Isn't the 10th slide in that deck suggesting the ALC-42s were more reliable than the P42s in 2023?

That's correct!

What's interesting is that as a machinist, we can't touch the prime mover on these locos. Even emissions stuff will be contracted out to Cummins. I'm not sure how the Unions lets this just slide by

I'm sure the union was consulted... it's not uncommon to have it be part of the purchase agreement for the vendor to support certain components during the warranty period or a long term support agreement.

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

CSRR573 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2024 2:32 am What's interesting is that as a machinist, we can't touch the prime mover on these locos. Even emissions stuff will be contracted out to Cummins. I'm not sure how the Unions lets this just slide by

In our industry we can work on the engines, and replace emission control components. If anything like injection pumps, after burners, DPF, etc. needs we repair, then we need to send it out to a third party for repair. Usually it's cheaper to just replace, and knock on wood, we haven't had to send a DPF to get baked yet.

Isn't that similar to Brightline having $vendor techs working on thier locomotives?
Or do they contract everything to the vendor, with no locomotive shop folks of their own?

From firsthand sales experience, the contract for performing maintenance and field support is usually more financially lucrative than the initial purchase. From a purchasing standpoint, you have a fixed cost over the lifespan of the locomotive.

Finance teams on both sides love it, and I can see where organized labor might not so enthusiastic.

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

eolesen wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2024 3:10 am I'm sure the union was consulted... it's not uncommon to have it be part of the purchase agreement for the vendor to support certain components during the warranty period or a long term support agreement.

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

We have Siemens techs on the property for tech support for the ACS-64s, however they're not allowed to replace or repair parts on the locos. They're basically a parts department for us.