Amtrak NEC Northeast Corridor Catenary - Repair, Replace, Status, etc.

Half as Interesting just posted a video on this exact subject:




I am sure that some of the recent articles mentioned in this thread inspired him/them to produce the piece.

I wonder if the catenary could be replaced more efficiently if it were contracted out to a Japanese or European Company?

markhb wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 2:37 pm Half as Interesting just posted a video on this exact subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShmVne51sF4

I am sure that some of the recent articles mentioned in this thread inspired him/them to produce the piece.

This video spends more time talking about the locations, reasons and histories of the 25Hz/60Hz systems than it does about how fixed termination vs. constant tension catenary works. The isolation and unique nature of the 25Hz system has nothing to do with catenary damage (and a few signal power) incidents of the last 4 months. There are plenty of criticisms of the signal power architecture and catenary configuration but the isolation of the system and its use of 25Hz is not usually one of them.

I challenge anyone to find reported problems or outages with the transmission system within the last year. The 6/20 issue might qualify as such but the details are hard to find.

I'd argue the 25Hz system as it is makes it extremely resilient against local utility failures. Amtrak can probably lose more than one supply (of about 10) and still be able to keep trains running. It may mean more costs for Amtrak but the bare minimum maintenance on the system is still pretty good. Aging components are probably a bigger issue. I believe a typical 60Hz/3 phase rail system lacks redundancy if a single connection point is lost unless the system is ridiculously overengineered. If anyone knows better, please correct me.

25Hz ain't going anywhere and this hilarious comment sums it up:

American rail having multiple incompatible electrification methods is the most European thing I've heard all week.

For anyone not aware yet, "Half as Interesting" is a "light" version of "Wendover Productions". The long form videos are way better presented and better researched.

I wonder if Amtrak's Unions would allow that work to be contracted out to a foreign company.

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robelybasis wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 1:29 pm Mainly the WAS-NYP section of the NEC catenary is failing. NHV-BOS is still relatively new only being 20 years old, in excellent shape. Metro-North upgraded their section in the early 2000s to a two wire constant tension system, while the rest of the NEC is antiquated.

A whole 25 years to be exact. Hard to believe it’s already been that long. The overhead wire installation was completed in late 1999 and the power was officially turned on end to end in January 2000 with the first revenue service electric train on the 30th or 31st (?) though the F40s were still in use through late winter/early spring 2001; my parents and I took Amtrak from Stamford to Old Saybrook on Memorial Day weekend 2000 and we had F40s pulling our train both ways.

eolesen wrote:I wonder if Amtrak's Unions would allow that work to be contracted out to a foreign company.

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Not a chance. The unions wouldn’t let so much as the food service on the Empire Service trains be contracted out to Subway without putting up a massive fight. And they won so you can assume a cumulative multibillion dollar infrastructure project like catenary replacement would be fought for tooth and nail a million times over.

Messrs. Olesen and "The FL-9 that never was", Contracting Out is not quite as stringent as I'm lead to believe you both hold as set forth in your immediates.

The Organizations will assent to a project being contracted when such requires forces, machinery, and expertise that those on the payroll or can reasonably be expected to be added are simply unavailable. A major renewal of the Corridor's electric transmission infrastructure is certainly one such project.

Now insofar as the ill-fated Empire Corridor Food & Beverage "fiasco" contracting out went, that is a case where ASWC represented employees were available to perform work within the scope of their Agreement, yet management chose to abrogate such on, so far as I'm concerned, no grounds whatever. The results were predictable and I'm glad in this case "the Brothers won one". The losers who in good faith accepted these positions, were the 18yo kids the Subway franchisee rounded up and were subject to the intimidation that they suffered.

JuniusLivonius wrote: ↑Fri Aug 02, 2024 6:24 pm For anyone not aware yet, "Half as Interesting" is a "light" version of "Wendover Productions". The long form videos are way better presented and better researched.

I have to agree that "Half as interesting" was doing a half-assed job on the video. It was not well written and researched as presented.

Europe has 4 voltages, and multiple pantograph specs. I think Germany and Switzerland use different shoe widths, despite the same voltage/frequency, and Austria uses a slightly different frequency from the other two.

The issues of phase imbalance, etc were put to bed back in the 50s. Designing a substation to pick from any phase isn’t stupidly hard. And the PRR’s system isn’t all in phase anyway, phase break signals exist in the rulebook, though I don’t know if any are still used on SEPTA or Amtrak.

Prof. Norman, you are absolutely correct that some work particularly project related can be contracted out. My point is that the union has to consent to it, and whether or not they would agree to allowing a foreign company to do it is questionable.

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Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2024 7:27 am Messrs. Olesen and "The FL-9 that never was", Contracting Out is not quite as stringent as I'm lead to believe you both hold as set forth in your immediates.

The Organizations will assent to a project being contracted when such requires forces, machinery, and expertise that those on the payroll or can reasonably be expected to be added are simply unavailable. A major renewal of the Corridor's electric transmission infrastructure is certainly one such project.

Wouldn’t this kind of undertaking be no different than replacing the rails and ties with new ones?


As David Gunn remarked in an interview about 15 years ago he had done essentially that for the Keystone Corridor between Paoli and Lancaster as an in-house “tie and maintenance job” rather than an “official project”. Replacing the catenary wire I would think would be considered a similar type of undertaking even if it is more massive in scope. Certainly more personnel and equipment would be hired on by Amtrak to expedite the work, but to compliment their existing workforce, not take the place of.

A problem with older CAT is that it tends to be straight instead constructed so the PAN sweeps back and forth. That prevent the PAN from getting a groove on the contact portion of the PAN.

How much faster would Acela or Regional Service be if the catenary was brought up to State of Good Repair? How many slow zones?

Sounds like Amtrak and the MBTA use the same maintainers /s

Kind of crazy that we have invested in two generations of HST's and cannot figure out how to invest in the wire required to plug them in. An HST is utterly useless if the wires don't work.

If money was tight, they should've bought more conventional sets and invested in the wire.

Come to think of it, if we only had a president that was really keen on Amtrak, he could champion this. We'd call him Amtrak John, or Amtrak James.

New trains are sexy. New substations and wires aren’t, especially given how ugly ours are.

You can bet when Amtrak Jeff (is it Jeff?) was in congress, crews knew when he was on board, and they and the dispatcher made sure that train was ON TIME, period. Even if it meant shafting the plebes he was supposed to represent…

Amtrakamala, Amtrak Donny Boy, or AmtraKjr. It's totally up to you...

Increase the voltage enough so that there is plasma coupling between the catenary and the pantograph. They don't even need to touch. Post "trespassers will be electrocuted" signs.