Amtrak/LIRR Moynihan Train Hall

JamesRR wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:03 am

andrewjw wrote: ↑Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:59 pm Amtrak will keep their current space (probably closing it for renovations) in addition to the new shared Amtrak/LIRR space.

I haven't heard anything about what will happen to Amtrak's existing space - was this reported anywhere? Amtrak will be moving passenger operations to the new Farley building, including baggage handling. Not sure why they'd want to have two facilities for passengers. I agree NJT should take over the existing Amtrak space, renovate it and use it in conjunction with the overcrowded 7 Ave concourse.

"The plan, officials said, is to build out the congested concourse into waiting areas currently occupied by Amtrak and Long Island Rail Road riders (they are moving from the subterranean station to the more spacious Moynihan Station across Eighth Avenue)." https://www.politico.com/states/new-jer ... her-852613 https://www.nj.com/traffic/2019/02/nj-c ... oject.html

I stand corrected. I'd missed the newer funding.

I remain skeptical that NJT riders will see much improvement in crowding conditions in the existing concourse. The interior of the current Amtrak concourse might get refreshed or even get a major rebulid, but I am of the opinion that Amtrak will quickly realize that operating only from Moynihan is not going to cut it operationally and will end up having to retain substantial spaces in its current concourse for itself. For example, does anyone think that loading a train on tracks 5/6 can be accomplished efficiently from Moynihan? There is too little vertical circulation (stairs and elevators) between Moynihan and the platform. Does anyone think that people coming from the NQRW at Herald Square or the 123 on Seventh Avenue will walk the distance to Moynihan only to walk back to board their train? As another example, it was realized within an year of opening of the expanded 8th avenue concourse that Amtrak and NJT trains needed to be posted there, so a few of the monitors close to the low numbered tracks were converted to shown Amtrak/NJT departures instead of LIRR departures. Moynihan is primarily a real estate project masquerading as a transportation enhancement.

At minimum, opening up the Amtrak exclusive seating area to all will make a huge difference to NJT passengers, since so many people sit on the floor and stairs in the NJT area

SecaucusJunction wrote: ↑Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:09 pm Tracks 1-4 won't have staircases, but when the track is posted, you could easily walk to those tracks, if necessary. Use Departurevision.

I used the new west side track access concourse last week (not sure what it is officially called, but the new one you can access from the LIRR area of the station, pretty far west, I assume under the Farley P.O./Moynihan station) when getting an Amtrak train. Maybe I was lucky, but it didn't seem like there was a door controlling access to the stairs (escalator?) to each track, so once you knew the track for your train you could get down there before the crowd from the main Amtrak waiting area, since they had to wait for access to the stair/escalator to open. At least it worked for my train. It seemed like a good trick for NJT too - did I miss anything there?

Towards the south end of the concourse, there was a sign pointing further south that said "Tracks 1-4", but I didn't have time to explore. How could that be? I didn't think the concourse went that far or as posted above there were no staircases down to them.

pumpers wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:52 pm

SecaucusJunction wrote: ↑Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:09 pm Tracks 1-4 won't have staircases, but when the track is posted, you could easily walk to those tracks, if necessary. Use Departurevision.

I used the new west side track access concourse last week (not sure what it is officially called, but the new one you can access from the LIRR area of the station, pretty far west, I assume under the Farley P.O./Moynihan station) when getting an Amtrak train. Maybe I was lucky, but it didn't seem like there was a door controlling access to the stairs (escalator?) to each track, so once you knew the track for your train you could get down there before the crowd from the main Amtrak waiting area, since they had to wait for access to the stair/escalator to open. At least it worked for my train. It seemed like a good trick for NJT too - did I miss anything there?

Towards the south end of the concourse, there was a sign pointing further south that said "Tracks 1-4", but I didn't have time to explore. How could that be? I didn't think the concourse went that far or as posted above there were no staircases down to them.

This is possible from the NJT Exit Concourse below the main Amtrak concourse as well, and has been for a long time. Few enough people use it that they've never changed procedures to prevent it somehow. Occasionally you get a dirty look from a conductor who sees you coming but nothing worse than that.

The sign for "Tracks 1-4" directs you right down onto the platform for tracks 5-6, where, if you continue, you will find a sign "Tracks 1-4" pointing you up into the NJT exit concourse right under the Amtrak concourse.

andrewjw wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:55 pm The sign for "Tracks 1-4" directs you right down onto the platform for tracks 5-6, where, if you continue, you will find a sign "Tracks 1-4" pointing you up into the NJT exit concourse right under the Amtrak concourse.

I bet that has faked out a lot of people, who get totally confused by being sent down to track level and then seeing signs telling them to go back up again!
Also, thanks for letting me know about the NJT exit concourse trick. Can you get down to all NJT tracks from there?

pumpers wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:06 pm Also, thanks for letting me know about the NJT exit concourse trick. Can you get down to all NJT tracks from there?

I'll answer my own question. I found this map on line: https://www.njtransit.com/pdf/rail/NYPENN_Directory.pdf
On the "Lower Level" map it doesn't have the new west concourse extension, but from what it calls the "exit concourse" you can get to all tracks 1-21.

PS: the map shows the Hilton Corridor ending at the IRT station (7th Ave subway). I haven't been at that end of the Hilton corridor for almost 50 years, but I sort of recall it somehow used to go through the IRT station (over to the old GImbels corridor) to get to what is now the PATH station at Herald Square.

pumpers wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:50 pm

pumpers wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:06 pm Also, thanks for letting me know about the NJT exit concourse trick. Can you get down to all NJT tracks from there?

I'll answer my own question. I found this map on line: https://www.njtransit.com/pdf/rail/NYPENN_Directory.pdf
On the "Lower Level" map it doesn't have the new west concourse extension, but from what it calls the "exit concourse" you can get to all tracks 1-21.

PS: the map shows the Hilton Corridor ending at the IRT station (7th Ave subway). I haven't been at that end of the Hilton corridor for almost 50 years, but I sort of recall it somehow used to go through the IRT station (over to the old GImbels corridor) to get to what is now the PATH station at Herald Square.

Hilton corridor is still open. 33 St is still shown as open to motor vehicles (it is not anymore) and WEC is shown, but only down to Tracks 13/14 for some reason.

andrewjw wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:45 pm Hilton corridor is still open. ...

Yes, but from the internet I see since 30 or so years ago, it no longer goes east of the 7th Ave subway.

Also, the bottom left corner says "12/14" So the map predates the recently upgraded (and extended) West End corridor.

So it looks like NJT will be a part of Moynihan station after all. (or at least rehab parts of Penn Station)

https://www.progressiverailroading.com/ ... cts--60460

The "Central Corridoir",built by MTA/LIRR,is going to be extended to reach track 1-4 tha NJT normally use,getting rid
of the jog on track 5 platform to reach tracks 1-4.

Pensyfan19 wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 11:23 am So it looks like NJT will be a part of Moynihan station after all. (or at least rehab parts of Penn Station)

https://www.progressiverailroading.com/ ... cts--60460

I saw this on NJT's Instagram page - a little confused. It's a smart idea, b/c it gives NJT a whole other boarding concourse to alleviate crowds in the EXIT and 7 AVE concourses. However, is this a standalone project? Is it integrating into Cuomo's mass-overhaul of Penn? Because the LIRR is also embarking on expanding their track staircases in the EXIT concourse, a la how they were built in the new West End concourse. And there are plans to overhaul other concourses at Penn.

I fear this will be yet another detached, visually different standalone segment that near ignores what's going on elsewhere in the station.

Pensyfan19 wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 11:23 am So it looks like NJT will be a part of Moynihan station after all. (or at least rehab parts of Penn Station)

https://www.progressiverailroading.com/ ... cts--60460

That is incorrect. The Central Corridor is between the LIRR and the old West side lower level NJT exit area. You can get to it by going down the stairs by the Krispy Kreme in the middle of the upper level. It currently services track 13-20(?). It branches off of the Hilton corridor.

Pensyfan19 wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 11:23 am So it looks like NJT will be a part of Moynihan station after all. (or at least rehab parts of Penn Station)

https://www.progressiverailroading.com/ ... cts--60460

How does building an extension of the Central Concourse (part of Penn Station proper) translate to being part of Moynihan “Station”?