• Amtrak/LIRR Moynihan Train Hall

  • This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.
This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

  by Long Island 7285
 
the PRR them selves. the President of the PRR in there last years sold the station bulding and its air rights to the devlopers of what is now MSG.

that was the most stupidest move in LIRR/PRR history, n there is nothing we can do now.

i say use this batch of money to get the MTA out of the "hock" that they are always in and use it to get GCT done ASAP, and leave well enough alone.

i might be dreaming and with NY politics it might only be my dream. but one day, and i mean 1 day. that discrace above our tracks between 7 & 8 avenues and 33 and 34 st's will become out dated and in danger of its own demise, and when that day comes, when it does, then and only then will the railroad community nation wide espically with New York area railfans, need to get together and notch out there torttles at the states doors to get what we once lost back to the best we can, in other words re build exatly what mckim build 100yrs eairler with some modern twist,
EX the dest bords above each track, made to look 100# like the origionals but uses LEDS and computers to desply the info. and so on, and also they need not to palloute the building with too much modern neon lights n stuff.

the above is NOT impossible if any of you DO want to see what NYP once looked liked to the best we can recreat it. atleast then we will have somthing more welcomeing then a rat borrow.


start you bills and potitions NOW. make them realise what needs to be done.

  by Jishnu
 
Irish Chieftain wrote:NJT's officially being courted; but originally, the new concourse was to be for Amtrak's use, ostensibly part of the Acela Express promotion.
When Amtrak was interested in the Farley project guess who was the boss at Amtrak. Now guess who is the current boss of NJT. :wink: Just a coincidence I am sure.

/J

  by E-44
 
Mark Schweber wrote:It's really all about real estate development. See this article from the NY Times today.

The design actually looks interesting, being somewhat evocative of the original Penn Station. But it is really all about the hotel that will be built in the building and the air rights that will be created and transferred to other sites.
This new design really does echo the original design (I like it) but I am concerned about the loss of the lower concourse and the ability to bring sunlight down to track level - as it was in the original station.

I had assumed that this second concourse level would be the connecting link to the "old" station. So I wonder how traffic will circulate in this design. It would be bad if there was not internal access to the 8th Ave. subway, much less a way to get to the LIRR and 7th Ave. subway.

  by Jtgshu
 
I think the design is tremendous - that will be a beautiful station!! Of course there is going to be a business/retail side of it - look at Grand Central - you can spend a day there, without even boarding a train!!!

I am still concerned with the "four stations" that NJT will have in NY. The 7th Ave concourse, the "old" 8th Ave concourse, the new Moynahan station, and the 34th St. station. This is going to be a logicistal night mare, getting people to the right place to board their trains. Having pepole walk 2 blocks on the platforms (on end of hte track 11 to 12 platform) isn't gong to work. the only way I can see it working is if the trains will unload at Moynahan station, pull east to spot for loading in the current station, the 7th/8th ave concourses. And any trains which go to the 34th street station will have to exclusively load and unload from there, not to cause confusion from passengers boarding and unloading those trains.

With a significant number of passengers, much higher than im sure the decision makers realize, not understanding how trains, and timetables and different lines work, asking questions like "Does this train do to New Jersey??" NJT is going to have to a tremendous task in keeping passengers wehre they want them to be, something I dont' see NJT up to the task of doing. With new lines and services planning ot be offered, this problem is only going to become much worse.

People groan and moan about the layout of SEC, going up to go down, at least thast in one building......this NY mess is going to be spread among several buildings over several blocks!!!!!

  by JLo
 
All of this is going to take a massive redesign of the underground labrynth that is Penn Station today.

There is always a potential development that could make things easier. The Garden may be coming down for a new Garden on the far Westside. Instead of being restricted by the low roof that is over parts of the station now, you could have more space and crossovers on many levels, provided someone with some foresight plans it that way.

  by rvrrhs
 
It's possible that once this multiple-station business is closer to fruition, one or another of the current NJT areas will no longer be NJT's.

I could see Amtrak taking over the present 8th-Ave. Concourse completely.

Or, maybe they'll try to make separate divisions-within-a-division--like all Midtown Direct trains go to the "satellite" station planned for 34th St., or the NJCL trains go to Moynihan.

Then there's the plan to connect the Hoboken Division to NYP--maybe those trains would go to Moynihan.

  by JoeG
 
The Moynihan station will have the same tracks as NYP.

  by Jishnu
 
JoeG wrote:The Moynihan station will have the same tracks as NYP.
Yes, and the operating plan that the AR folks shared in one of their RCLC meetings says something like 4 trains will use the new tunnel and the old station. The rest of the trains that come through the new tunnel will go to the 34th St station. In general almost all dual mode trains (Main, Bergen, Pascack, Port Jervis, Raritan Valley) + all NJCL trains will go to the 34th St station. The rest, which are all electric, except possibly one or two dual mode through runs from Hacketstown via Montclair, will go to the old station. This is just a proposal that they shared in the October RCLC meeting. I am sure this will change many times over by the time things actually get built.

/J

  by E-44
 
Maybe this was answered elsewhere, but where are these dual-mode wonders coming from? Is there anything off-the-shelf (or close to being off-the-shelf) that can handle multi-voltage/multi-frequency catenary as well as having a Tier III prime mover? Or will we see the DC third rail restored?

I assume such a beast exists in Europe but it seems like it would take more effort (and cost) than Americanizing the PL42AC did.

  by pgengler
 
E-44 wrote:Maybe this was answered elsewhere, but where are these dual-mode wonders coming from? Is there anything off-the-shelf (or close to being off-the-shelf) that can handle multi-voltage/multi-frequency catenary as well as having a Tier III prime mover? Or will we see the DC third rail restored?

I assume such a beast exists in Europe but it seems like it would take more effort (and cost) than Americanizing the PL42AC did.
I asked about this over in the "Locomotives, Rolling Stock, and Equipment" forum here, and the response was that no such unit exists. I don't think that it would have to me multi-frequency, since it would, in theory, only be running on electric between Secaucus and NYP, which is all 11kV/25Hz. Still, NJT would have to make a significant investment in an unproven design.

  by Jtgshu
 
Unrelated or not, coincidence probably, but the third rail in the North River Tunnels will be activated in the coming months - it has all been recently rehabbed and much of it, if not all of it, is new.

Why? I have no idea..... hahaa

  by pgengler
 
Jtgshu wrote:Unrelated or not, coincidence probably, but the third rail in the North River Tunnels will be activated in the coming months - it has all been recently rehabbed and much of it, if not all of it, is new.

Why? I have no idea..... hahaa
I can only imagine it's unrelated ... there's still a ton of work to be done before NJT can even consider running one-seat rides from the Main/Bergen/Pascack Lines into NYP, not the least of which is a physical track connection and new equipment.
The only reason I could see for this would be so Amtrak can run its dual-modes on electric through the North River tunnels. I don't know why they would want to, though, since there's catenary the whole way and they've got the toasters (AEM-7s) and the bananas (HHP-8s).

  by jlr3266
 
The extension of the third rail is part of the tunnel safety upgrades, allowing for alternate power moves in a rescue situation.

  by Jishnu
 
E-44 wrote:Maybe this was answered elsewhere, but where are these dual-mode wonders coming from? Is there anything off-the-shelf (or close to being off-the-shelf) that can handle multi-voltage/multi-frequency catenary as well as having a Tier III prime mover? Or will we see the DC third rail restored?

I assume such a beast exists in Europe but it seems like it would take more effort (and cost) than Americanizing the PL42AC did.
NJT's current position is that the dual mode thingies will be pantograph based and not third rail based. As for where they are going to get such is an open issue. It was stated that a study is being finalized and it will be available through the ARC website when it is ready.

  by DutchRailnut
 
NJT can not even built a straight diesel within weight limits, were are they gone hide the 10 ton transformer and rest of the AC gear ???
No AC/ diesel electric exist and NJT won't invent it.
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