Amtrak Heartland Flyer Discussion and Possible Extension

ryanwc wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2024 2:31 pm

RandallW wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2024 5:27 am I've worked more than a dozen elections, and every general election those machines have been used in my precincts. Furthermore, the ramps at the schools where I've worked an election are used by students in wheelchairs at those schools.

The argument that its acceptable to determine a cost at which someone's rights under the constitution don't need to be upheld are the most blatent "I've got mine, so up yours" style of "f*** you" statements possible, and I really hope that when you need assistance of any kind everyone arround you is kinder to you about it than you are being about it to now.

As an aside, I have to assume you were speaking about touchscreen voting usage, not the 4-button controller or sip-and-puff tech. If you really see either of those used regularly, then you're in one of the precincts I was saying I'd like to provide better service to - including making those poll workers practice on how to get the accessible equipment out, tested and functioning, and troubleshot if it didn't work. And as for ramps being used by other visitors to polling places, my old office provided election day-only temp ramps in dozens of sites. I'd love to see some of the money spent on "sip-and-puff for everyone! regardless of need" spent on permanent ramps at those sites, which are not accessible 99.46% of the year.

We may be wandering off topic, but (at least for the VA machines) the 4 button controller and breather control is locked in a compartment on the touchscreen device when packed away -- for the volunteer elections officer (me), it's all of 5 minutes to set the entire machine up, set the headphones beside it (in VA, the headphones must be disconnected unless being used by the voter), turn it on, verify the precient code and date are correct, and lock the compartment holding the power switch and programming port. Those machines cover every contingency including authorized languages that aren't on the standard ballot and even have batteries so they can be brought to a car (in VA we will bring voting equipment to a car if necessary). County staff ensure that machine is ready for the election, and the volunteers just plonk it on the table, plug it in, and power it up.

Let's bring it back to the Heartland Flyer; this is not voting.net.

Wheelchair lifts stored at stations are not an adequate or reliable solution, as wheelchair lifts have been stolen, leading to stations even being closed.

John_Perkowski wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2024 12:43 pm The last time around, Oklahoma was willing to add some money to the pot.

Kansas was not.

The Kansas Legislature is still a bunch of cheapskates. Tell me why folks should hop a train from Wichita to Newton, to wait in a station for 3 or 4 with their not very good record of keeping the advertised.

I’m betting a fried chicken dinner at Strouds the Kansas Legislature not vote funding.

I'm a former Kansas resident and I totally understand why this isn't popular. It is the worst idea I've heard in a few days.

Consider the evening northbound Flyer would drop them in Newton at 220a. The Chief comes through at 2a, so perhaps they will pause for 20 minutes and pick up Flyer passengers. You arrive in Lawrence at 5a or KC at 7a, Chicago at 3p. Maybe useful for a meeting in KC. Maybe. Not useful for sporting games in KC or Lawrence.

Then you get back on at 10p in KC or 1130p in Lawrence, change trains at 2am in Newton, arrive in Wichita at 430a.

So the Jayhawks fan starts their trip to the game a 1am, kills all day in Lawrence, goes to the game, then rides the late train home and arrives at 430a? Naw man, nobody is going to do that. Nor is a businessperson going to do that in KC.

This is just a bad idea, and it's why we don't try to interface long distance trains with corridor trains.

Matt Johnson wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2024 1:13 pm I wish Amtrak would focus on a Heartland Flyer South sort of service for Dallas - Houston rather than a pie in the sky high speed rail vision that has zero chance of coming to fruition in the near to medium term.

Texas DOT got Corridor ID awards for both Houston - San Antonio and Houston - Dallas/Fort Worth over conventional rails. So that’s being looked at separately from the Texas Central high speed thing.

https://ftp.txdot.gov/pub/txdot-info/fe ... rridor.pdf

Worth noting that they're also studying the idea of a separate, stand-alone Dallas-Newton train that would offer a better schedule for Kansas.

Wouldn't Wichita be a bigger draw than connections in Newton? But once you're in Wichita, going the additional 27 miles to Newton might add few costs and give the possibility of a handful of transfers.

I don't have an opinion. Just offering some relevant considerations.

That might make more sense, but on the list of "what corridors are a good idea?", anything Wichita is down low. The market just isn't there and probably won't be for a very long time.

If we want to improve the Flyer, there are a few better ideas:
-Extend to San Antonio as the Eagle is a crappy way to serve a huge market of DFW-San Antonio.
-Extend to Tulsa or have an Intra-Oklahhoma train
-Start the train at Dallas
-Consider other Texas routes to strengthen the network by adding nodes - Houston, Austin, etc..
-Tyler-Longview-Shreveport
-Lubbock which doesn't have an interestate directly
I'm just thinking out loud here and I don't necessarily endorse these ideas, but they're all way better than Newton or Wichita. I don't get the fixation of Wichita/Newton other than "we need to close the grid on the map".

Extending the Heartland Flyer means replacing the bus that currently runs from a connection to the Southwest Chief in Newton to a connection with the Heartland Flyer in Oklamhoma City with a single train running the length of the existing Fort Worth to Newton train + bus trip on its current schedule.

Over the years of paying some attention, I've noticed a 'fixation on Newton' in some places. But here, the only news is that the state of Kansas is looking into things. I seriously doubt they're going to put any money into a Dallas-San Antonio extension. (You know that, of course, so I'm just making a joke, not meant at your expense.)

If I were Kansas, I'd be more interested in a River Runner extension to Lawrence or Topeka than a Heartland Flyer extension. I wonder if our Kansas colonel has any thoughts on why the state is looking at the Flyer instead. (I vaguely remember that at some point we discussed delays in a yard west of KC - maybe due to limited refueling options, probably in a SW Chief thread.)

To Randall's point, I have to admit I was completely dubious about the Flyer extension until I followed a link at some point to an article that mentioned the bus, and it was apparently full or nearly so. I was shocked that a midnight transfer bus would have that much business. But I'm still dubious.

ryanwc wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 12:57 pm If I were Kansas, I'd be more interested in a River Runner extension to Lawrence or Topeka than a Heartland Flyer extension.

Yes. This. BNSF has a huge shops at Topeka and there is the state capital, plus the University in Lawrence. This would all make a lot of sense, far more sense than Newton Express to nothing.

I think the Heartland Flyer should be extended all the Way to Kansas City. There would be better connections there than in Newton. It would probably be an overnight train. I dont know how long of a schedule from KC to Ft Worth would be to do a totally day train. Heck Id even just extend it to Chicago and recreate the Lone Star that ended in 1979.

Thank you and happy holidays to all.

Mike Scholz

Overnight Heartland suffers from the same USA national problem. Lack of any sleeper space available to province sleeper service. The only Superliner train left to rob is the CNO. However there are no single level cars that could take its place, The same problem is making the Sunset single level east of SAS but Eagle taking those cars to become daily west of SAS.

RandallW wrote:Wheelchair lifts stored at stations are not an adequate or reliable solution, as wheelchair lifts have been stolen, leading to stations even being closed.

Whether you like it or not, compliance to the letter of the law is still compliance...

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eolesen wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 9:59 pm

RandallW wrote:Wheelchair lifts stored at stations are not an adequate or reliable solution, as wheelchair lifts have been stolen, leading to stations even being closed.

Whether you like it or not, compliance to the letter of the law is still compliance...

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

I wonder if they've ever contemplated air-motored wheelchair lifts. Air motors are notoriously robust, powerful, and don't require charging batteries, wiring, or much repair. And each train has a ready supply of air, just would need a hose with quick disconnect on new or rebuilt cars. This is really a perfect application for pneumatic power.

Tadman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 15, 2024 6:12 pm I wonder if they've ever contemplated air-motored wheelchair lifts. Air motors are notoriously robust, powerful, and don't require charging batteries, wiring, or much repair. And each train has a ready supply of air, just would need a hose with quick disconnect on new or rebuilt cars. This is really a perfect application for pneumatic power.

If you're going to do that, you might as well build the wheelchair lifts *into* the cars. Yeah, it's added weight, but ADA laws don't care.