Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

I think the folks at amtrak know what they are doing. Just saying....

They get to build brand new tunnels with modern techniques and technology, plus have the advantage of giving a bit more room for emergency egress and so on. Instead of arguing about equipment that can't fit through to sunnyside lets focus on the tunnels and construction methods, route under the river etc etc...

This is a massive project and i can't wait to see real progress being made.

25Hz wrote:I think the folks at amtrak know what they are doing. Just saying....

They get to build brand new tunnels with modern techniques and technology, plus have the advantage of giving a bit more room for emergency egress and so on. Instead of arguing about equipment that can't fit through to sunnyside lets focus on the tunnels and construction methods, route under the river etc etc...

This is a massive project and i can't wait to see real progress being made.

Get ready for a long wait.

What height is the new lirr tunnel ?

morris&essex4ever wrote:

25Hz wrote:I think the folks at amtrak know what they are doing. Just saying....

They get to build brand new tunnels with modern techniques and technology, plus have the advantage of giving a bit more room for emergency egress and so on. Instead of arguing about equipment that can't fit through to sunnyside lets focus on the tunnels and construction methods, route under the river etc etc...

This is a massive project and i can't wait to see real progress being made.

Get ready for a long wait.

I don't know. The fact that they're basically starting to kick the LIRR out of part of the west side yard is actually promising to me. I think we may see something sooner than I would have thought just a year or two ago.

The LIRR ESA tunnels are built to fit an M7 profile, their multi level cars and engines cannot fit.

The M8's can't even fit through the 63rd Street Tunnles. Just the M3's/M7's can fit.

I hope they're planning to put in overheight detectors at Harold.

ExCon90 wrote:I hope they're planning to put in overheight detectors at Harold.

Ya have to read the threads about Metro North going to Penn Station. If you believe everything you read in them M8s are never ever never going to run in Queens and 147 reasons why they won't.

Metro North ridership into Grand Central uses all of the M8s. They are going to have to buy more equipment if they start running to Penn Station. If for any other reason running to Penn Station will induce demand. They don't have to use M8s to do that.

I guess LIRR isn't getting M8a's?

I wonder if amtrak will put in 3rd rail to the new tunnels?

Oh, annd moving LIRR out of west side yard is to put the tunnel section in down below the yard for the new tunnels, not to start construction on the full tunnel.

25Hz wrote:I guess LIRR isn't getting M8a's?

No. What use would the LIRR have for cars that cannot go to GCT or ATL and have overhead wire pantographs and associated systems that would never be used on a single inch of LIRR track?

25Hz wrote:I wonder if amtrak will put in 3rd rail to the new tunnels?

Now that's a question. Here's my guess: if the new tunnels are interconnected to the East River Tunnels at some point (i.e. so a train from there could conceivably get to/from SSYD) then my guess would be, yes, they would have third rail (for a P32 or DM to do a rescue, should the need arise). However, if there were to be no feasible route from SSSYD to NJ through the New Tunnels (i.e. the tunnels go to a brand new stub-station that isn't connected to the rest of the NYPS tracks and tunnels) then I would say that the tunnels would not have third rail in that case.

25Hz wrote:Oh, annd moving LIRR out of west side yard is to put the tunnel section in down below the yard for the new tunnels, not to start construction on the full tunnel.

Right you are, but progress is progress, and at least they're doing something. And the LIRR's not necessarily moving out of WSY, they're just abdicating their maintenance facility there for the duration, see this link for more information about that.

lirr42 wrote:

25Hz wrote:I guess LIRR isn't getting M8a's?

No. What use would the LIRR have for cars that cannot go to GCT or ATL and have overhead wire pantographs and associated systems that would never be used on a single inch of LIRR track?

25Hz wrote:I wonder if amtrak will put in 3rd rail to the new tunnels?

Now that's a question. Here's my guess: if the new tunnels are interconnected to the East River Tunnels at some point (i.e. so a train from there could conceivably get to/from SSYD) then my guess would be, yes, they would have third rail (for a P32 or DM to do a rescue, should the need arise). However, if there were to be no feasible route from SSSYD to NJ through the New Tunnels (i.e. the tunnels go to a brand new stub-station that isn't connected to the rest of the NYPS tracks and tunnels) then I would say that the tunnels would not have third rail in that case.

25Hz wrote:Oh, annd moving LIRR out of west side yard is to put the tunnel section in down below the yard for the new tunnels, not to start construction on the full tunnel.

Right you are, but progress is progress, and at least they're doing something. And the LIRR's not necessarily moving out of WSY, they're just abdicating their maintenance facility there for the duration, see this link for more information about that.

Well an M8a wouldn't have pantos or AC current equipment...

The new tunnel tracks could connect to the empire tunnel track, which does have 3rd rail...

I'm now wondering if the tunnels will be built from the current end of track south of the empire connector to the west end of west side yard where the support box is being put in vs just dig a hole & put the support box in and cover it over...? This isn't a small project which is why LIRR is being temporarily displaced. Something like 1600 feet of tunnel section is going to be put in...

I may be mistaken, but I believe any new tunnel approach will come in south of the existing tubes. I think the yards you are talking about are north of those tubes. If LIRR is being moved out of parts of their yard, it could be for foundation work needed to deck over the west end of the station. most of that open area will be covered and become a park for two buildings going up there.

25Hz wrote:I think the folks at Amtrak know what they are doing. Just saying

Like with the E60s, SDP40Fs, P30CHs and HHP-8s?

25Hz wrote: Well an M8a wouldn't have pantos or AC current equipment...

Then it wouldn't be an M8.
Very broadly M-some-odd-number is DC/third rail only. M-some-even-number is DC/third rail and AC/catenary.

amtrakowitz wrote:

25Hz wrote:I think the folks at Amtrak know what they are doing. Just saying

Like with the E60s, SDP40Fs, P30CHs and HHP-8s?

Off topic, but they pretty much served their respective purposes...although in a sometimes ugly fashion.