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Normal NJT trains at rush hour are 10 multilevel cars. I have no idea why Amtrak would send a P32 to rescue that.

My comment regarding locos stands. EMUs at rush hour are only used on local trains that end at Jersey Ave. NJT doesn't have enough locos to put two locos on every train, plus they ordered locos capable of hauling 10-car sets so they are going to use them to haul 10-car sets. The only reason Amtrak is using 2 Sprinters on some of the Regionals is because they don't have enough cab cars, not because it makes any sense to get rid of your backup locomotives in the yard and attach them to running trains.

RandallW wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2024 4:27 pmThe P32 is a diesel. Clearly they decided not to turn the diesel engine on.

It's a dual-mode. The 3200HP prime mover isn't the greatest puller in the world. Although it's better than running it in third rail mode.

lensovet wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2024 7:10 pmMy comment regarding locos stands. EMUs at rush hour are only used on local trains that end at Jersey Ave. NJT doesn't have enough locos to put two locos on every train, plus they ordered locos capable of hauling 10-car sets so they are going to use them to haul 10-car sets. The only reason Amtrak is using 2 Sprinters on some of the Regionals is because they don't have enough cab cars, not because it makes any sense to get rid of your backup locomotives in the yard and attach them to running trains.

The idea that one electric loco can pull 10 cars in commuter service is part of the reason why the trains are so slow. The practical maximum to have reasonable acceleration is 6 cars per locomotive - OR- EMUs. For Amtrak, one ACS-64 might be able to handle 10 cars, since it's a Regional train that stops every 20+ miles, not a commuter train stopping every 2 miles.

lensovet wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2024 7:10 pm Normal NJT trains at rush hour are 10 multilevel cars. I have no idea why Amtrak would send a P32 to rescue that.

My theory still stands.

My comment regarding locos stands. EMUs at rush hour are only used on local trains that end at Jersey Ave. NJT doesn't have enough locos to put two locos on every train, plus they ordered locos capable of hauling 10-car sets so they are going to use them to haul 10-car sets. The only reason Amtrak is using 2 Sprinters on some of the Regionals is because they don't have enough cab cars, not because it makes any sense to get rid of your backup locomotives in the yard and attach them to running trains.

I pulled a look at the P32, which yes, gets you 3200 HP... but that's barely enough to pull 6 double deckers. Any more and you need two -- MARC proved that back in the 2010's with MP36's (3600 HP, down from the GP40WH-2's 4000 HP).

There were 10 double deckers in the tube. You needed two or a Sprinter to yank them back out.

This means one thing: NJ Transit did not communicate how long the train was. They shot themselves in the foot and are trying to deflect that by blaming LIRR's third rail. Not only that, ether the knuckle on the EMU set or the P32 was broken, they needed to replace it, and there was not one on board to do it. So you might as well put the spare knuckle on the Sprinter while the P32 crew check the caternary to make sure that didn't get screwed up.

As I said before...

MARC is a poor comparison. We are not trying to get a train upto track speed and maintain that. We are just limping a train out of the way.

Our posters are forgetting that this incident probably calls for a loco to pull uphill. Otherwise wonder if the rescue could see saw back and forth to gain momentum?

If the train was rescued by a ACS-64, does that mean NJT is trying to blame Amtrak for its engine not functioning once power was restored? And shouldn't NJT be maintaining backup power in Sunnyside or do they just cancel a run out of NYP if their locomotive isn't working?

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:25 amI pulled a look at the P32, which yes, gets you 3200 HP... but that's barely enough to pull 6 double deckers. Any more and you need two -- MARC proved that back in the 2010's with MP36's (3600 HP, down from the GP40WH-2's 4000 HP).

I'd bet a freight GP-40 would have had no issue (other than that fact that it wouldn't fit in the tunnel in the first place so in this scenario, it would have been totally useless) pulling that load on that grade.... the gearing of a P32 doesn't make it a good puller.

eolesen wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 4:35 pm

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:25 am I pulled a look at the P32, which yes, gets you 3200 HP... but that's barely enough to pull 6 double deckers. Any more and you need two -- MARC proved that back in the 2010's with MP36's (3600 HP, down from the GP40WH-2's 4000 HP).

Hogwash. It's not the horsepower, it's how it's used...

The F40PH is a 3200hp locomotive, and they pull 9 to 11 cars regularly up in Chicago solo.

The MP36... as you said, can barely seem to handle 6-8 cars.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 6:25 am There were 10 double deckers in the tube. You needed two or a Sprinter to yank them back out.

Granted, the grade in the tunnels probably presents a slightly different challenge.

I stand corrected. I was under the impression it was 4000hp.

IMO it is all about traction. DC traction might have a very difficult time especially with short term ratings. Now if AC traction that is a different item. P-32 loco has DC traction.

The P32s have AC traction per Wikipedia (full name is P32AC-DM). Following that source, the starting tractive effort on the P32 is 62,000 lbf and that of the ACS-64 is 72,000 lbf (slightly higher than the NJT ALP-46's 71,000 lbf) although that source indicates the ACS-64 is more prone to wheel slip. It makes me wonder if someone did the calculations, and they worked on paper with the P32, but that proved to be wrong for some other reason (or didn't account for the dead weight of the NJT locomotive).

Someone did calculations about tractive effort? Come on.

I think it would be the gearings. In terms of tonnage, freight versions of the GE Dash-8 line can pull WAY more. Although the P40DCs ran the Auto Train at one point in time, and they are passenger geared.