• Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

  • This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.
This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

  by Gilbert B Norman
 
"Three more years and an extra $2 (b; that is)":

New York Times

Fair Use:
But on Wednesday, the commission managing the project announced that the new tunnel would not be completed until 2035, three years later than expected, and a year beyond the deadline envisioned by Joseph Boardman, that former Amtrak chief executive. And the old tunnel — owned by Amtrak but more heavily used by New Jersey Transit — will not be fully rehabilitated until 2038, also three years later than planned.

Not only is the new tunnel experiencing delays but the overall tunnel project is also expected to cost more: $16.1 billion, up from a previous estimate of $14.1 billion. Both estimates include the cost of financing the project.
Anyone think this is the last of delays or overruns?

Now what I find astounding is that here is the US,, with its Twenty One T GNP compared with Austria's Four tenths of a T, Austria digs away at its seventeen mile rail tunnel under the Semmering Pass between Graz and Vienna. In addition, with cooperation from the Italians, they dig away with a thirty four mile tunnel under the Brenner Pass between Innsbruck and Bolzano.

And....nothing came to my attention last month when I was "over there" that either are materially behind schedule.
Last edited by Gilbert B Norman on Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by Frank
 
It doesn't matter how much it costs as long as it gets done.
  by eolesen
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote:"Three more years and an extra $2 (b; that is)":

New York Times

Anyone think this is the last of delays or overruns?

Now what I find astounding is that here is the US,, with its Twenty One T GNP compared with Austria's Four tenths of a T, Austria digs away at its seventeen mile rail tunnel under the Semmering Pass between Graz and Vienna. In addition, with cooperation from the Italians, they dig away with a thirty four mile tunnel under the Brenner Pass between Innsbruck and Bolzano.

And....nothing came to my attention last month when I was "over there" that either are materially behind schedule.
It's really not a fair to compare tunneling through solid rock and tunneling through loose soil adjacent to an under a river.

You're also comparing a project where there isn't an existing tunnel. I doubt the Austrians are going to be building a new parallel tunnel to something that already exists anytime soon.

It's safe to say that all of these projects are going to have epic increases in cost due to inflation. The O'Hare Global Terminal Two project in Chicago is already looking to be about 20 to 30% higher than originally planned just 3 years ago, and that's before any recessionary/inflationary cost increases from union CPI contract triggers get past along.

I can't even think about the increases headed for CAHSR......
  by lensovet
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:23 pm And....nothing came to my attention last month when I was "over there" that either are materially behind schedule.
OK, I have to interject. How can someone visiting NYC "see" that anything is behind schedule? This information is easily checked: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semmering_Base_Tunnel.

Construction started in 2012. They are already behind by 4 years. The cost has already grown by more than 10%. The Lötschberg Base Tunnel still has not been completed, over two decades after it was started, because cost overruns on the Gotthard Base Tunnel necessitated diverting money from Lötschberg to Gotthard.

And yes, I can imagine supply chain issues and inflation causing this to be behind schedule. But Portal is moving along.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Well Mr. Lensovet, now something has.

Thank you.

Incidentally, and off topic, the Brenner Pass is more rugged than I had expected. Even though I have been overseas some dozen times in this life, I had never been over it until this most recent journey. However, the Roman Empire built a road over Brenner and maintained it until their Empire fell during AD 476.
  by nyrmetros
 
The delays and costs will continue to escalate. I wonder why the Pennsylvania Railroad built 4 tracks in the East River train tunnels but only 2 tracks under the Hudson?
  by Bracdude181
 
nyrmetros wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:33 am The delays and costs will continue to escalate. I wonder why the Pennsylvania Railroad built 4 tracks in the East River train tunnels but only 2 tracks under the Hudson?
Good question.

Just on delays, I’ve been hearing that they are getting more frequent. Mainly trains getting stuck in the tunnels for whatever reason which then creates a big backlog.

What other issues are consistently happening right now?
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
nyrmetros wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:33 am I wonder why the Pennsylvania Railroad built 4 tracks in the East River train tunnels but only 2 tracks under the Hudson?
Lest we forget, prior to WWII, Long Island had more farmland than suburban development.

The only PRR trains contemplated into Penn were intercity. Exchange Place, which was accessed by the H&M was where their NJ commuter trains tied up.

Four tracks under the East River is explained by the LIRR and that the PRR handled their trains through to Sunnyside.
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