Amtrak Gateway Tunnels - Freight Usage

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:21 am Okay, tunnel to Staten Island. Rebuild Conrail's North Shore Branch and extend it to meet the tunnel. You now have a second point of access for that trash train to go through.

Now only if there was a place that could take it and use it to generate power...

You Mean B&O/CSX north shore Branch.
It would be nice if MTA could get FRA and FTA to play nice, And use EMU/DMU/BMU for the TBX , through cross harbor tunnel, to serve north shore, to cranford (over now abandoned SIR), with freight at night.

Besides, as important as waste disposal is, Long Island has substantial freight needs.

Tom V wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:10 pm Some news today!

In addition to transit service, the existing Bay Ridge Branch corridor can service cross harbor rail freight and would dramatically reduce truck congestion regionally and expand goods movement facilities, thereby fortifying supply chains still struggling to recover from the pandemic. Transportation planners believe that cross harbor rail freight and passenger service on the Interborough Express can work together in concert, which could be a game-changer for the region. To that end Governor Hochul is also directing the Port Authority to complete environmental review for the Cross Harbor Rail Freight Tunnel.

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/gover ... ooklyn-and

Huh, interesting, looks like a pared down version of TriBoroRX. Hopefully they don't try to cram a subway line on that ROW, it makes a LOT more sense as FRA heavy rail that shares trackage with the Cross Harbor Tunnel and other freight traffic.

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 3:48 pmYou Mean B&O/CSX north shore Branch.
It would be nice if MTA could get FRA and FTA to play nice, And use EMU/DMU/BMU for the TBX , through cross harbor tunnel, to serve north shore, to cranford (over now abandoned SIR), with freight at night.

The Cross-Harbor freight route isn't that great for passenger traffic, although the Cross-Harbor route would allow some form of TriBoroRX to connect to the Newark airport, but I don't think that would really be that useful on the whole. It would also be challenging for freight operations, as they couldn't have freight in the tunnel while a passenger train was in there, and the tunnel would have to be doubled to two tracks to support passenger operations, versus a single track for freight.

Am not sure about freight only traffic. But passenger traffic even if only a single R/T a day will require 2 tunnel bores connected every ~800 feet by a fireproof passage way between the 2 bores. Fire safety regulations that are being applied to the future Gateway north river tunnel bores.

As said not sure about freight traffic but some kind of escape seems to be the requirement? But under water kind of hard?

How many trains, freight, could a single track Cross Harbor tunnel handle each way?


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Add to that question - how much more does it cost to build it with 2 tracks versus 1?

Incremental cost for a second tunnel would be less than double, but that still begs whether or not there's demand for one tube.


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Tom V wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:34 pmHow many trains, freight, could a single track Cross Harbor tunnel handle each way?

The study says 25 trains/day, which is not an issue for a single track, except that there are fairly narrow windows when they operate. I would think that it would be much cheaper to add some extra sidings on the Bay Ridge Branch, however, to accommodate freights hanging out as well as TriBoroRX or this interborough thing than to put in a second tunnel.

Part of the challenge in NYC is that Oak Point and Fresh Pond don't exactly have a lot of room to double or triple trains, so likely they would have to go as much smaller shuttles out of the Oak Island complex, not up to 16,000 foot DPU monsters like we're used to seeing in the rest of the CSX system. The Cedar Hill trains would likely go as one or two DPU monsters in each direction if MN allows it between 0000 and 0400 hours when there is little commuter traffic.

Assuming there was demand to run that many trains, where on the Long Island side is there space to stage and build 12 trains each way? Yard capacity on the east side of the tunnels will be the chokepoint, not tube capacity.

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eolesen wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:28 am Assuming there was demand to run that many trains, where on the Long Island side is there space to stage and build 12 trains each way? Yard capacity on the east side of the tunnels will be the chokepoint, not tube capacity.

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If you look a bit far away, the closest yard would be the Fresh Pond Yard, off the LIRR Montauk branch west of Jamaica... which I bet is full of LIRR trains.

The question turns to "Where is there room to build a yard?" and that is "69th street yard. Much more room there.

While some freight goes to Queens or Brooklyn, Nassau likely has some room, and AS I'VE NOTED SEVERAL TIMES, THERE IS A FREIGHT YARD IN SUFFOLK. And there are some sidings.

How much freight would Staten Island support? What are past metrics?

Yeah, I get that there are sidings and some freight capacity in yards further out, but I'm having a hard time imagining multiple 100 car freights rolling through the elevated track that runs through many of the communities between Suffolk and the city limits...

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They will never be that long.

photobug56 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:54 pm They will never be that long.

if they will never be that long, what's the point of spending all this $$$$ on infrastructure for them?