Amtrak Empire Service (New York State)

I believe the Amtrak Service Workers Council of the Transport Workers Union holds the contract representing On-Board Service employees.

The TWU has long been known for its millitancy, their one time flamboyant leader Michael J Quill had a one word vocabulary :

Strike.

It appears that Philadelphia Transit Co (well you know, Transit Division of SEPTA) recently celebrated its 'biennial event'.

At present, there is not one mention of this contracting out matter at their site; I am astounded.

Did Amtrak even serve a "Section Six Notice" as provided for by the Railway Labor Act when either party to an agreement chooses to change any provision therein, or in their often "arbitrary and capricious manner' did they "just do it".

I have no problem with Amtrak serving Subway sandwiches in its cafe cars, so long as the person filling my order is employed by Amtrak, contributing to (and participating in) Railroad Retirement, earning a living wage, and receiving health care benefits. My problem derives from using three Subway employees earning low wages to do the work of one Amtrak employee earning a living wage. If Walmart wants to bottom feed in the labor market with private stockholders' money, more power to it. But I do not want my taxes going to support enterprises, such as Amtrak, trying to emulate such policies. I wish Amtrak's unions could shut the operation down.

If the food service industry was required to pay all of its workers a living wage, health benefits and fund their retirements, there would be NO food service industry in this country!

If one assumes that Amtrak won't politically be allowed to continue to have a $100million food and beverage operations loss, there are only two alternatives: - No food service at all (thus no loss) or - Contract out food service to outside vendor, who will pay the prevailing food service industry wage.

Actually, Mike Quill was a consummate politician who was more bluster than bite. He did yell "Strike!" a lot, but it was part of the biennial New Years Eve ballet of New York City transit negotiations, which went down to the midnight limit (sometimes the clock was stopped and it continued a couple of hours into the new year). But there was never a strike, until New Years 1966, when new Republican Mayor John Lindsay couldn't figure out how to play the game and ended up with a transit strike his first day as Mayor. Then Mr Quill, with his lovingly-preserved Irish brogue, ripped up a no-strike injunction on TV, and thundered "The judge can drop dead in his black robes!" He was jailed and dropped dead of a heart attack. It appeared that actually having to call a strike killed him.
There was another subway strike around 1979, but I don't remember the circumstances. I don't even remember if the TWU called it--at the time I had other things on my mind. But I've never been impressed with the TWU's actual militance in New York anyway; there are always rank and file groups agitating against the leadership on the grounds that it isn't tough enough with management. The fact that there is no mention of the Amtrak shenanigans on their website makes it seem like some kind of deal was made, but of course we don't know what it might be.

What goes on in the private-sector food service industry is one thing. But the manner in which the government uses the money I pay in taxes is quite another, and I do not want my taxes going to support enterprises that bottom feed in the labor market. And I resent the fact that our federal government is conducting this pathetic experiement in my back yard.

P.S. Please do not be intimidated by my strong feelings on this subject. I very much welcome and appreciate opinions that are contrary to my own.

Everytime Amtrak contracts out, the private vendor shows up with more employees to do the same job that outsourced Amtrak living-wage employees used to do.

I'm as pro labour as the next guy, but I feel that jobs such as the Amtrak cafe attendetns are what have given organized labour a bad name. I'm all for a living wage, but far too often the unions go to far and get a cushy wage with plenty of featherbedding.

I feel that low skill/effort, high pay jobs with union provided security results in generally poor service. The workers become board with the work because its not very demanding and dull, but they have no incentive to move on because of the high pay. Their disaffection is often taken out on the customers in the form of rudeness. The high pay/effort ratio of the job makes the employees want to stay, but the lower total sallary makes them want more. Due to the low turnover associated with union protection the employees learn how to game the system (ie beinging in their own food to sell) and because of the same union protections the employer has to institude complex proceedures to protect against fraud (ie the 20 min before and after terminals is due to inventorying and other checks).

Moreover, I think its bad public policy to be inventivizing people to stay in low skill jobs when they can do better. Amtrak was paying high wages for crappy food and lackluster service. If the Union is going to stand in Amtrak's way of forcing the employees to earn their wages then screw them, they're out.

I have a wonderful opinion of Subway. The service is very good. The workers are usually the young who basically need an imcome suppliment and I even feel that the work is of a higher caliber than that of a more traditional fast food place where the food is more pre-packaged and there is less customer interaction.

I am disappointed that the sandwitches will be premade. I feel an AmCafe is ideal for a Subway assembly line with counter space and nooks for all the fixins. I will admit that the latency with having to build the sandwitches combined with the edibility of the food would result in long lines.

Lets assume Subway is able to find some people who would be willing to work for, lets say, seven dollars per hour, plus, if reports are correct, some kind of commission. Even at that rate (with healthcare benefits being left for social service agencies to provide at taxpayer expense), we are talking about an hourly labor rate of of $21.00 per hour, plus a commission, to staff this mickey mouse operation.

I know a number of teenaged NYC Railfans which would love this job. Hell, if you're a retired Railfan greeting at Sprall Mart this is like a dream job. Anyway, why are you so negitive about this? We're going from overpriced crap food and shit service that I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole to GOOD FOOD AND BETTER SERVICE that I would seriously consider buying and not being pissed about wasting my money wfterward. This is what a market economy is suposted to do. Look, we went from having one 15/hr employee standing around collecting a wage cause nobody wants his shit food or his attitude to THREE people, getting a combined wage of 21/hr serving food that people want in a way that makes people happy. Calculate the net utility and you'll find its MUCh higher.

So could some one tell me the difference between a soggy Amtrak sandwich and an soggy subway sub prepared in the early AM and sold late at night.

What has me and my other union brothers and sisters ticked off is the bringing in of non union employees to take the place of union employees, how much saftey training have they had, if they should get hurt what kind of trouble is the train crew going to be in , from what Ive read they are expected to "babysit" them.

If this plan works whats to stop them from leasing entire trains to a sub contractor to run. Im paid for what I do and what I know, to operate a train from point a to point b in a safe and timley manor. Would you like an engineer thats making 8 to 10 dollars an hour running a train at 90 mph with your family on it? Dont think it could not happen...

Thanks for joining this discussion, Mr. Junkie, I was waiting and hoping that you would choose to do so.

First, would you confirm or correct that the on-board service crafts are represented by the ASWC of the TWU?

Secondly this union has a record of millitancy, there is the 'biennial event' in Philadelphia that trust me occurred long before SEPYA assumed control of Philadelphia's urban mass transit, and Mr. JoeG relates above his recollections of the TWU's activities in New York.

It is noteworthy that New York mayors from O'Dwyer to Wagner somehow made peace with the ranting Irishman, Mike Quill. However, when John Vilet Lindsay, whose idea of urban transit was having the doorman hail a taxicab at his 'East Seventies' abode, took office, as Mr G notes, all went South.

With this history, Mr Junkie, may I ask 'where was your union'?

As I noted earlier, it would appear that Amtrak unilaterally "just did it". I would think this would be a matter to be collectively bargained.

'Back in my day' when I was in railroad Labor Relations, the parameters for a carrier to contract out were a need for specialized equipment, training, an emergency, and a non-recurring nature and scope of the project. This instant contracting out adventure, which I would guess is going to result in one more Amtrak fiasco, has displaced a small number of employees from the, I'm guessing, ten positions Amtrak abolished with the discontinuance of NY-Alb F&B service. A posting at another boardsaid "no one lost their job"; probably true as those employees displaced simply bid on other jobs, and somehow I would suspect that at any given time, Amtrak is prepared to hire from the street ten entry level employees, possibly placing all into the OBS craft.

But the fact remains, a precedent has been set, with potentially severe consequences to labor. As also noted elsewhere, what's next Roomettes from Marriott?, Dining Cars by Applebees?. I'm not sure if the traveling public will see any benefit, such as better quality of food (a can of Pepsi is a can of Pepsi), arising from this contracting out initiative.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:I'm not sure if the traveling public will see any benefit, such as better quality of food (a can of Pepsi is a can of Pepsi), arising from this contracting out initiative.

I am very much aware that in this case we're talking Subway, so the comparison may not be appropriate, but I'll again mention that my own experience with the contracted food service on the "Downeaster" has been highly positive -- better food at lower prices than what's served in identical Amcafe equipment on the Corridor. Contracted food service as such does not have to be of low quality, based on that example that's now been running for four years. (And I'm also aware that because the "Downeaster" was a startup service, the labor issues being discussed here did not apply as directly.)

BTW, Mr. Norman, thanks for bringing back memories of Mike Quill! My Dad was an Irishman on the management side of the labor relations desk in private industry, and I always figured that he and Quill would have gotten along famously.

Rhinecliff wrote:I have no problem with Amtrak serving Subway sandwiches in its cafe cars, so long as the person filling my order is employed by Amtrak, contributing to (and participating in) Railroad Retirement, earning a living wage, and receiving health care benefits. My problem derives from using three Subway employees earning low wages to do the work of one Amtrak employee earning a living wage. If Walmart wants to bottom feed in the labor market with private stockholders' money, more power to it. But I do not want my taxes going to support enterprises, such as Amtrak, trying to emulate such policies. I wish Amtrak's unions could shut the operation down.

Is Railroad Retirement significantly different than Social Security in which the Subway employees would participate?

Note that were it not for the Subways of this world, many of these low paid and low skilled workers would have no employment opportunities whatsoever. It is not a clear cut social issue.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:I believe the Amtrak Service Workers Council of the Transport Workers Union holds the contract representing On-Board Service employees. The TWU has long been known for its millitancy, their one time flamboyant leader Michael J Quill had a one word vocabulary :
Strike.

Ha! That brings back some memories. I distinctly remember Quill's NY radio news audio clip after the threat of and just prior to that subway strike in December, 1966 ". . . and I wish the people of New York a Merry Christmas." He was also noted for intentionally mispronoucing the then Mayor's name as "Lindsley".

Mr. Nelligan, I appreciate your command of the issue; you also noted another relevant parameter for establishing the propriety of contracting out - a new service!!

Because of the captive nature of the Downeaster operation, Amtrak might possibly have had to establish a crew base complete with the supervisory overhead endemic to any publicly funded operation at North Station; that only adds to the economics in favor of that contracted operation.

FWIW, my first ride over the line was during 1959, when other than the State of Maine and the seasonal Bar Harbor, the service was Budd RDC's, so even to me any Boston & Maine food service is a WAZZAT.

As for the quality of the food, it is an important issue, and I do not wish, simply because the labor issue is first and foremost to me, to dissuade anyone from discussing such. I personally must pass; I have never been near a Subway restaurant (as in mass transit; of course). My doctor is quite pleased to learn that I can now 'drive on by' MickeyD without having a "Bigmacattack".

Railroad Retirement and Social Security have many similarities, not the least of which being that they are both pay-as-you-go transfer programs. Thus, both programs depend on contributions from current employees to fund the pensions received by retired employees.

In the case of Railroad Retirement, the pensions paid to retirees are essentially supplements to Social Security benefits. Tier I of a railroad employee's retirement benefit roughly approximates a social security pension, and Tier II is the supplement. Railroad employees and their employers both contribute significantly more into the Railroad Retirement System so that railroad employees can recieve this extra retirement benefit.

Thus, when a company like Amtrak tries to withdraw from Railroad Retirement, or outsource work that was formerly done by railroad employees who contributed to the Railroad Retirement System, two things happen: First, the current employees no longer have access to this enhanced retirement benefit; and second, the Railroad Retirement System loses revenue that it needs to fund the pensions being received by current retires. This places pressure on the remaining employees participating in the Railroad Retirement System and their employers to contribute more to keep the system solvent. If railroads like Amtrak were allowed to outsource enough of their work, it is quite possible that the Railroad Retirement System would need to seek a government bailout from the taxpayers.

As a taxpayer, I am not interested in supporting policies like this simply to allow the neocons to experiement with having three low-wage Subway employees providing a service that has traditionally been provided by one railroad employee earning a living wage, receiving socially responsible benefits, and contributing to the Railroad Retirement System. As far as what Subway does on its own, I could care-a-less. My beef is not with Subway, it is with Amtrak's decision to outsource traditional railroad work to private operators to fulfill the fantasies of beltway neocons. Far too much is at stake. The neocons have no clue of the long-term implications of their short-sighted policies.

Here in Seattle, the food and service on the Cascades is very good, and the labor is Amtrak employees. From what I gather the wages paid are not necessarily "cushy" and the work is not particularly "easy" (no restaurant work is actually, but that's another matter)

The self-righteous greed of people (and greed is what it is - no matter what pretty words you use to dress is up) who resent a worker being paid a decent amount of money is one of the worst things about this country. If you want to play the outraged taxpayer, there are blatant and horrifc real wastes of tax money out there. There are people who we are paying large sums of money to, who are working actively against this nation's best interest.

But Amtrak has a budget to meet. And this is the sort of simple-minded solutions you get when you try to run something on the cheap.

Ken W2KB wrote:

Rhinecliff wrote:I have no problem with Amtrak serving Subway sandwiches in its cafe cars, so long as the person filling my order is employed by Amtrak, contributing to (and participating in) Railroad Retirement, earning a living wage, and receiving health care benefits. My problem derives from using three Subway employees earning low wages to do the work of one Amtrak employee earning a living wage. If Walmart wants to bottom feed in the labor market with private stockholders' money, more power to it. But I do not want my taxes going to support enterprises, such as Amtrak, trying to emulate such policies. I wish Amtrak's unions could shut the operation down.

Is Railroad Retirement significantly different than Social Security in which the Subway employees would participate?

Note that were it not for the Subways of this world, many of these low paid and low skilled workers would have no employment opportunities whatsoever. It is not a clear cut social issue.

Or High School kids looking for work. From what I hear an Amtrak LSA Starting Pay is $25K or so.