Amtrak Empire Service (New York State)

NY-ALB travelers who don't pack donuts with them are free to choose from among the Empire Service trains that also run beyond Albany.

hsr_fan wrote:Heck, don't some of Metro North's trains and LIRR's Montauk trains have some sort of a bar car?!

The New Haven route still has alcohol on quite a few evening weekday trains, and when I last rode one, about six months ago, it was well used.

I beleive the LIRR no longer has any; in any event, the premium service wasn't in the summer timetables recently.

Folks, the depth of anger and resentment over the way Amtrak is handling the Albany service seems to know no bounds. This thread has been going on nonstop for three months, since July 13. Do you realize that? Incredible.

Now, I don't expect to change anybody's mind; after all, I've been on this forum for a long time and have seen adequate instances of "once you guys get dug in on something you don't quit!"

My opinions, all of which I have probably posted on here before, recapitulated briefly, are:
1. So why is cafe service on a 2 1/2 hr. ride such a be-all-and-end-all? Sure, it's a "nice-to-have," but come on.
2. I don't miss turbos. Why do any of the rest of you? What on earth would having turbos in service provide in the way of incremental impvoements to the service? Before somebody pulls out the "New York paid for the rebuilding of these" argument, let me say that I am speaking as a New Yorker. The resolution of this matter is up to NY and Amtrak to handle between themselves, and whatever happens won't affect the service, or affect the rest of us in any way that I can see.
3. The timekeeping stinks. I know. However, it is beyond Amtrak's control or the control of any other outfit that might theoretically operate passenger trains there. We are tilting at windmills if we keep running on about this.

The Empire Service is the only intrastate Amtrak service that gets no state payment. In the past NY made major infrastructure improvements and promised more, but Pataki pulled the plug. So, if we want the Albany trains to have food service, we might suggest to our Governor or legislators that they make a deal with Amtrak to kick in some bucks for food service. We will still be getting a bargain, compared to what it would cost NY if, say, Metro North had to pay to run the Empire Service itself.

JoeG wrote:The Empire Service is the only intrastate Amtrak service that gets no state payment.

It receives no direct operating subsidy, except for one or two trains (Ethan Allen, Adirondack?). But how many other states have invested millions in an impressive new station like the one in Albany, or in upgrading and maintaining tracks to 110 mph standards? How many states have provided Amtrak with free equipment? I don't believe Amtrak had to pay a dime for the Turboliners...they were just supposed to operate them. Maybe that was costly in itself, but to me a good compromise would have been Amtrak agreeing to operate the Turbos in exchange for New York letting Amtrak off the hook for the promised track upgrades (125 mph trackage south of Albany and a second track to Schenectady).

In the past NY made major infrastructure improvements and promised more, but Pataki pulled the plug. So, if we want the Albany trains to have food service, we might suggest to our Governor or legislators that they make a deal with Amtrak to kick in some bucks for food service. We will still be getting a bargain, compared to what it would cost NY if, say, Metro North had to pay to run the Empire Service itself.

Looking at the big picture, it's ridiculous that $70 million was spent on Turboliners that don't get used, and yet they can't spend a mere $1 million a year for food service! That's kind of like somebody buying a Ferrari when they can't afford to buy groceries!

Well Folks it just got worse
At CP175 just east of Amsterdam, NY, CSX Q366(10) piled up in the > interlocking. At least one car in the river, Track 1 ripped up, Track 2
with wrecked cars on it. RJ Corman already beginning to clean up the mess. Amtrak Empire Service suspended thru tomorrow, with bustitutions; 48 turns to 49 at Rensselaer.

hsr_fan--
New York spent money on the Turbos, mainly because they were rebuilt in Joe Bruno's district. Apparently Amtrak figured that it would cost them more to run the Turbos than to run regular Amfleet trains, plus the turbos have reliability problems, require onboard technicians, have bad AC, etc. So, whatever the Turbos cost NY, they were seen by Amtrak as an additional cost, not as a benefit. You can't look at the $70 million as a gift to Amtrak that could offset $1 million per year in food costs.
Incidentally, the Adirondack gets NY subsidy money and the Ethan Allen gets VT subsidy money, but they aren't apparently considered part of the Empire Service even though they serve NYP-ALB.

AmtrakFan wrote:Well Folks it just got worse
At CP175 just east of Amsterdam, NY, CSX Q366(10) piled up in the > interlocking. At least one car in the river, Track 1 ripped up, Track 2
with wrecked cars on it. RJ Corman already beginning to clean up the mess. Amtrak Empire Service suspended thru tomorrow, with bustitutions; 48 turns to 49 at Rensselaer.

48 will have to turn to 49 at Syracuse as Amsterdam is between Albany/
Rensselaer and Syracuse.
Guess it will be buses between Albany and Syracuse.
Noel Weaver

That's gotta stink for Amtrak and the Northeast, already more than a week after the NEC truck accident at the Bronx River area and now tack this Freight accident to that list.....

..........that's bad news to this Amtrak ride for NorthEast folks

Robert Paniagua wrote:That's gotta stink for Amtrak and the Northeast, already more than a week after the NEC truck accident at the Bronx River area and now tack this Freight accident to that list.....

..........that's bad news to this Amtrak ride for NorthEast folks

Read today that 48, 49, and 63, 64 were the only Amtrak trains to operate west of Schenectady today, all others cancelled with no alternate service. I guess things will be better on track tomorrow as CSX cleans up their mess...

Wow, just the Lake Shore Ltd, and the Toronto Maple Leaf? That's REALLY very little service there, I hope this aint the beggining of something in the Empire Corridor.

Robert Paniagua wrote:Wow, just the Lake Shore Ltd, and the Toronto Maple Leaf? That's REALLY very little service there, I hope this aint the beggining of something in the Empire Corridor.

They ought to be back to normal today, although with delays. At least I would hope so, by now....

All trains have been running west for a couple of days now with out to much of a delay getting through the area. If I remember correctly track two is timetable speed and track one and the siding have the restriction

Some of you ask why the elimination of the food service is a big deal. It's a loss-maker, you argue.

Well, it's very simple. The food service is one perk over Metro-North. If travelling from Dutchess County, I can take Amtrak at Rhinecliff or drive to Poughkeepsie and take MNR. With food gone, there's one less reason to take AMT. At least MNR is reliable, and frequent. (Okay, so the seats suck).
Why should I pay a premium for Amtrak ? And now that the trains are all reserved, there's even more of a disincentive to take Amtrak.

As for the expense issue. Sure, food service is an expense. So is air-conditioning.

If you want to run a profitable railroad, it's pretty simple to get started in the right direction - encourage people to travel, don't discourage them ! Give them a reason to use your service : clean, reliable trains. Food service. Frequent trains ! (Amtrak could service many many more passengers from Dutchess county - if they had decent schedules. For example, 2:45pm, 3:45pm, 4:35pm, 5:45pm and 7:10pm is nuts. As is 5:56am and 7:06am - one gets in too early, the other too late. (Not to mention that they dropped the 4:56am - reducing service instead of suiting customers better).

Of course subsidies are needed. But Amtrak management should (after firing all the useless middle layers) look at what works in Europe (France, Switzerland and Germany), and develop a to-the-point cost benefit analysis for the railroad that highlights things like :

a) oil/gas savings ( and resultant impact on trade deficit)
b) pollution, estimated auto maintenance savings, road maintenance savings
c) estimated depreciation savings on autos, again impacting trade deficit
d) the fact that, rolling stock and in particular rail infrastructure have much longer operating lives than aircraft, airports and roads.
e) consideration should be given to constructing new HSR corridors, financed by 100 year tax credits or bonds. (Since the new corridors would provide benefits last hundreds of years)
f) the associated costs of airports - security staff, air traffic control, baggage handlers, taxi dispatchers, taxis, fuel deliveries, crew, maintenance

Of couse there are problems to be solved - control of tracks, etc. But tracks should be considered a national resource - like the air or roads - and not controlled by a commerical company.

The solution to the rail mess is a combinatio of focus on passengers, a realisation that other forms of transport are far more expensive to the economy than most of us realise, and an awareness that, since railroads are such long lived assets, we can finance them in innovative ways.

Unfortunately, Mr Dubliner, Amtrak is under pressure from the Congress on the subject of food service.

As long as Amtrak is a political animal, it will have to respond to Congressional demands ... from both sides of the aisle.

John Perkowski