Amtrak Empire Service (New York State)

For the THIRD Consecutive Friday, EVERY train departing New York before 7pm on the Empire Corridor is SOLD OUT. That is 8 trains each Friday, all sold out. For the 56th Consecutive Friday, the Lake Shore Limited is SOLD OUT departing NYP, excluding the day after Thanksgiving and Christmas Day. No other Corridor has such an unmet Friday demand and it is likely no scheduled transportation of any kind has ever achieved the sold out status and popularity that the Lake Shore Limited enjoys, especially on Fridays.

Fridays have always been a zoo between NYP and ALB. Keep hearing rumors at work they are going to adding trains back to the schedule next month. If they do that could bring it back pretty close to pre covid levels of service. Still no Canada Ehh, Having enough people and equipment and people to run them that's a different issue all together.

I noticed an extra Amfleet coach on the Lake Shore today, ahead of the cafe that's always behind the Boston sleeper. No extra NYP sleepers, though.

Again Amtrak is causing over sold conditions by limiting number of passenger cars. When will the pols catch on that Amtrak seems to be limiting passengers and revenue ? No one is answering these questions.

When I took the LSL back in June they only had 2 coaches out on NY. The #49 that I was on was sold out well over a month and a half in advance, both coaches and sleepers. I just saw #49/13 on the Elkhart VR webcam and it had the extra coach ahead of the Boston sleeper as Mr. Philips noted but still only 2 coaches on the NY section. They are definitely losing out on revenue by not adding more cars.

J.D. Lang wrote: ↑Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:00 am When I took the LSL back in June they only had 2 coaches out on NY. The #49 that I was on was sold out well over a month and a half in advance, both coaches and sleepers. I just saw #49/13 on the Elkhart VR webcam and it had the extra coach ahead of the Boston sleeper as Mr. Philips noted but still only 2 coaches on the NY section. They are definitely losing out on revenue by not adding more cars.

As mentioned in an earlier post there have been many deadhead coaches on the tail of 49 going to Beechgrove for refurbishment. Some of the stuff was stored so quickly at the beginning of covid things may not have been done as they should have been. Hence there is a shortage of both AM1 AM2s.

For those of you traveling the Empire in the next few weeks there will be some minor delays due to track work between Hudson and Rennselear. The high speed gang is out working around Ferry Rd in Stuyvesant. A couple of weekends for this one. Its a start of a few weeks or more of work.

Railjunkie wrote:For those of you traveling the Empire in the next few weeks there will be some minor delays due to track work between Hudson and Rennselear. The high speed gang is out working around Ferry Rd in Stuyvesant. A couple of weekends for this one. Its a start of a few weeks or more of work.

Thanks for the heads up Junkie; the missus and I will be on 232 Friday morning out of RHI.

And today, 49 had an Amfleet cafe ahead of the Boston sleeper! I wonder if those cars are actually deadheading too...

west point wrote:Again Amtrak is causing over sold conditions by limiting number of passenger cars. When will the pols catch on that Amtrak seems to be limiting passengers and revenue ? No one is answering these questions.

Amtrak's approach is not to lengthen trains but to increase frequencies and incrementally grow service. They learned the lesson that the legacy railroads either of ignored, denied or couldn't afford. Passenger service can't grow on peaks alone it needs the shoulder traffic as well.

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I can't recall them adding any Empire Service trains in the last 20 years (I could be wrong) but have definitely seen more 6 and 7 car trains when in the past it was pretty much strictly 5 cars.

That said, at generally 13 trains a day in each direction, there's already a lot of service (definitely room for a bit more though).

Now that the S&NC is gone, I wouldn't mind seeing a few extra trains to SAR. Even if it was just during pony season, it'd be nice to take the train to see my family in Corinth/Ballston without packing in like sardines during peak track times. Not that the Taconic/9H - 90 - 87 is an awful drive, but it's certainly a ride I enjoy more when I can relax to the scenary and not scream at the idiot with Mass plates that just cut me off merging onto 787.

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Understood. And I appreciate that consists are longer than they have been in past. However, that is simply not a long term formula for growth. Longer trains have a multitude of issues that shorter consists don't. I can't say for sure but my impression is that on non-electricied corridor service (diesels with less horsepower and acceleration) the point of diminishing returns is somewhere around 6 cars (including a half cafe, half club).

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gokeefe wrote: ↑Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:41 pm Understood. And I appreciate that consists are longer than they have been in past. However, that is simply not a long term formula for growth. Longer trains have a multitude of issues that shorter consists don't. I can't say for sure but my impression is that on non-electricied corridor service (diesels with less horsepower and acceleration) the point of diminishing returns is somewhere around 6 cars (including a half cafe, half club).

Locomotive diesel horsepower numbers are important when considering train lengths.
Amtrak diesel locomotive "national" workhorse
The P42DC is rated at 4,250 horsepower (3,170 kW), or 3,550 horsepower (2,650 kW) when supplying HEP, and is geared for a maximum speed of 110 mph (177 km/h).
Amtrak diesel locomotive "empire" workhorse
The P32AC-DM is rated at 3,200 horsepower (2,390 kW), 2,900 horsepower (2,160 kW) when supplying HEP, and is geared for a maximum speed of 110 mph (177 km/h).

When you are down on horsepower you can not pull the same number of coaches as quickly.

gokeefe wrote: ↑Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:41 pm Understood. And I appreciate that consists are longer than they have been in past. However, that is simply not a long term formula for growth. Longer trains have a multitude of issues that shorter consists don't. I can't say for sure but my impression is that on non-electricied corridor service (diesels with less horsepower and acceleration) the point of diminishing returns is somewhere around 6 cars (including a half cafe, half club).

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Agreed, if I had the choice between 1 train 10 cars long, or 2 trains 5 cars long, I'll take the latter. (generally).
More trains means more flexibility. One nice thing about the Empire Service is other than an awkward window around 10:00 AM (or was it 11, I can't remember now) I could basically "catch a train once an hour" years ago when I was travelling more.
And I seem to recall the Downeaster, as it kept adding frequencies saw larger increases than one would expect simply by counting the % increase in the number of seats. Again flexibility helps.

Getting back to Empire Service, I'm really hoping with additional equipment we see more trains ALB-NYP but also ALB-BUF (and beyond).

P32ACDM with six cars keeping it on the advertised is not an issue. Seven it starts to get a little shaky on the time keeping. Eight your gonna need a tail wind. Nine or more , as Ron Popeil would say "set it and forget" it at 80. Thing with them now is to keep them running, no easy task at the moment.

If CSX is involved I wouldn't hold my breath on expanded service west of Schenectady to Buffalo