• Amtrak Empire Service (New York State)

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by Greg Moore
Unfortunately, I have to agree with you on all that.

I expect the new Siemans cars will simply free up Amfleet and Horizons for use elsewhere. I can't see NYS buying anything new in the short-term. (Though it would be nice! Some nice large windows for the long the Hudson River!)

And I agree, I can see a LAB replacement, if only because of efforts by both Albany and Rensselaer to open up their waterfronts and a desire to have another walkable/bicycleable crossing). So you only have 2-3 (both cities, the state) jurisdictions in the picture and at least 2 of them want the same thing.

Trying to negotiate anything with MNRR... not happening any time soon.
  by Alphaboi
NYSDOT will likely either just get in on whatever Amtrak orders to for Amfleet I replacements; either buying or leasing cars.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

  by Jeff Smith
Or, if they're smart, they'll contract with Brightline lol. As for NPRC whatever they use to replace it with, it doesn't have to be DC DM. They could use a dual mode diesel/cat that I think they're developing with Siemens.
  by Trinnau
njtmnrrbuff wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:07 pm Yes, Livingston Ave Bridge definately needs to be replaced. It's well up there in age and not in good shape. The current LAB bridge really slows down the trains when they cross the Hudson River. I would love to see a train bridge combined with walking/biking paths.
Faster trains with pedestrians? Asking for trouble there. Also if a moveable bridge needs to be kept then that is another safety issue with pedestrians. Better off looking at a stand-alone ped/bike path bridge.
  by njtmnrrbuff
The trains would probably move a tad faster across the new bridge, if so. There is still the very sharp curve on the Rensellaer side of the bridge which would hinder and faster speeds across LAB. I would also be for a separate bridge for bikers and pedestrians.
  by Greg Moore
The talk has been any LAB replacement would include a pedestrian option. Obvious it would be protected/shielded from the trains. They won't be building a separate pedestrian bridge, too expensive.
And of course any bridge will need to be movable.

Yes, a slightly faster passage is probably possible, but not much as others have noted because of the curve on the east side.
  by Railjunkie
Rumor has it the new LAB bridge will be built on the north side so if you think the curve on the east side is going to be bad think about the west side going around Central Warehouse. The bridge will be moveable, it will be a lift. Have a good friend who is a operator up there who is kinda sweating his job at the moment. Amtrak would love to remote the bridge but I don't think the coast guard would allow it do to the height above the water and the amount of train traffic.
  by Greg Moore
Yeah, I was trying to imagine how to eliminate the curves going into the bridge (on either side) and short of taking down a number of buildings, it's not going to happen.

I almost wonder if it would be cheaper and easier to raze the existing structure and use the existing piers. The downside is months of disconnected service to the north and west. You'd probably have to stage trains on the west side and shuttle people across if you did that.

I believe the Green Island Bridge up in Troy is now automated, but yeah, at the LAB, still a number of crossings.
  by StLouSteve
Regarding LAB, any chance they could keep the old one for bicycles and pedestrians only? Nice bit of history there. (I think out here in MO, we are trying to keep the Katy bridge in place and use it in the upright position for peds and bikes).

I know it is not quite April Fool's Day, but would it be possible to put a new crossing south of the current location so use of Albany station might one day be possible again?
  by Railjunkie
Keeping old LAB would mean having a swing next to a lift assuming they actually build a lift. Plus you would need operators to open and close each bridge. As for where the old Maiden Lane bridge once stood for access to the old Albany station that is currently occupied by Interstate 787. There are parts that still exists like "Bull run" which comes off the D&H/CP it connects to Amtrak at CP145 by the Central freezer warehouse that track has been OOS for years. Even if it was in service I think it maybe FRA excepted track and that means no passenger trains.
  by Greg Moore
Given the location of the current LAB and the approaches, there's really no room for a 2nd one nearby and have both be openable for watercraft.

As for a new crossing south of the current location and using Albany, not really. I mean yeah, you COULD build a bridge, but the old Albany station is to much cut off from the current freight tracks (that would be another issue, CSX does use that line quite a bit) and there would be no useful parking.

As it is, the ALB station lot pre-covid was often full. Unlike say NYP where the city itself can generate enough passenger traffic, Albany isn't that large and I'd say a fair portion of folks drive in from outside of Albany proper.

So no, not going to happen anytime in our lifetimes.
  by daybeers
According to Arrow, currently Empire Service #280 originates in ALB instead of its usual Niagara Falls, NY. Why then does the extended schedule at 2:40 still stand instead of the 2:30 or 2:35 that the other trains are? ASMAD says it’s been early at least a few minutes every day except two for the past month.

Right now, fares are $36 one way ALB-NYP. How does that compare to the past? Still feels high for only 141 miles especially considering NYP-WAS (301 mi) is $22 and I just did POU-CLE (545 mi) for $41. Yes I know different markets but still.
  by Gilbert B Norman
Mr. Daybeers, that "Great Economist" - Polly - has the answer.

"Supply and demand"; "supply and demand".
  by Ridgefielder
Greg Moore wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:30 am As it is, the ALB station lot pre-covid was often full. Unlike say NYP where the city itself can generate enough passenger traffic, Albany isn't that large and I'd say a fair portion of folks drive in from outside of Albany proper.
Last I was there, probably 1 out of every 4 cars in the Rensselaer garage had Vermont tags. I don't think those folks are going to be interested in a downtown station with no parking.

And its not like the current location is miles away from downtown in the suburbs. It's ~4'000' straight line distance from the old Union Station.
  by StLouSteve
Regarding replacing Albany LAB, perhaps during construction, Amtrak will have to use the freight bridge (Smith) and back down the B&A connection to access the station--like they did years ago with the Lake Shore Limited to Boston when the Post Road connection was torn out by PC. This move will require an engine change to switch directions to continue onward.

I did this move recently when Amtrak ran an Autumn Express up the West Shore, across Smith Bridge and then down the Hudson. Lots of rare miles.
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