Amtrak Empire Builder 2nd Daily Frequency Chicago - St Paul

gokeefe wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:33 pm Perhaps a return of the Pioneer Limited ... The name is a significant issue here ... Passengers need to be able to differentiate between this train the Empire Builder and the Hiawathas.

Cross posted from the CHI-MSP 2nd daily frequency thread ... Twin Cities Zephyr does sound better than Pioneer Limited especially given that it would be location specific and clearly identify the destination and origin. Even at MSP everyone would know the "Zephyr" as the "day train to Chicago".

Tip of the hat to you D. S. Lewith.

Surely the Twin Cities Hiawatha would be the logical name, no? It's a Hiawatha, but it goes to the twin cities too. It doesn't go to Emeryville

As for Chi-MSP just bring back the old North Star schedule. Over night in both directions between CHI and MSP. Connects nicely with the proposed MSP to Duluth train. All you need is one Superliner sleeper, one 37000 Cross Country Cafe, and two or three coaches (one of which would be a baggage coach) per set.

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?grou ... &item=0040

As for the name, call it the Hiawatha Night Express.

Agreed on Twin Cities Hiawatha. And none of those are new stations - they are the existing Empire Builder station stops. I was hoping they’d add MKA (Milwaukee Airport) at least, and Minneapolis Target Field as an endpoint.

But on the other hand, we get a new train!! I can’t complain that much.

I vote for "Twin City Teapot".

A Zephyr on "MY MILW"????

Oh, please.

Yes I know, it was about as poorly managed a road out there, and at the end, much corruption came to light. But it still was "MY road", on which my eleven year railroad career was spent.

The Twin Cities Zephyr would be a great nickname for a train running between Chicago and St. Paul and back. It's not just being able to get to the Twin Cities in the late afternoon and early evening. The smaller towns along the existing Empire Builder route that would be serviced by this second train will benefit a lot. Maybe the schedule will permit for daytrips between the greater Chicago and Milwaukee ares to towns like Wisconsin Dells and back. At the very least, it would be possibly to make an even longer weekend in the Dells when traveling by train from Chicago.

I've always thought there should be a name associated with a level of service. Given that "Rocket" is a famous train name and not used, it would be good for corridor service that meets certain clear upgraded standards. Then the fares could be raised because there is a clear cut value proposition with riding a Rocket extra fare train.

Service requirements could include:
-Schedule, average speed, and timeliness goals (no stops within 30 miles of each other)
-Wifi level of service
-food quality
-real business class

mtuandrew wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 4:57 am Agreed on Twin Cities Hiawatha. And none of those are new stations - they are the existing Empire Builder station stops. I was hoping they’d add MKA (Milwaukee Airport) at least, and Minneapolis Target Field as an endpoint.

But on the other hand, we get a new train!! I can’t complain that much.

This service has been discussed or some time, specifically a second train from Chicago to St. Paul. The Twin CIties Hiawatha is a good name as it would be following the former Milwaukee Road main line. I am also in support of an overnight service between these two cities, since that distance and potential market is perfect for that kind of service.

However, since this is an expansion discussion, I was thinking of even more direct service between Chicago and St. Paul via Burlington Route (present-day BNSF Chicago,Aurora, St. Croix and St. Paul subdivisions), essentially restoring the Twin Cities Zephyr, and restoring service to the communities along that line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_Cities_Zephyr). Not to mention, that line also had overnight service and was the route for the Empire Builder and the North Coast Limited, meaning it could be possible for LD trains to be rerouted through here as well.

This is how I would name a train:

(Insert Name) Zephyr = mostly runs on Burlington Route trackage
(Insert Name) Hiawatha = mostly runs on Milwaukee Road trackage
(Insert Name) Rocket = mostly runs on Rock Island trackage
(Insert Name) 400 = mostly runs on C&NW trackage
(Insert Name) Chief = mostly runs on Santa Fe trackage
(Insert Name) Daylight = mostly runs on Southern Pacific trackage
Other famous train names, such as the Cannonball, would preferably be given to a train running on the majority of the original route. If Amtrak were to restore the route of the Wabash Cannonball, from St. Louis to Detroit, the name of that train would preferably be the "Cannonball".

Therefore: the Twin Cities Hiawatha would be a preferable name for this second Chicago to St. Paul Train as it runs along former Milwaukee Road trackage.

A trip over the Burlington essentially trades Milwaukee for...Dubuque. The rest of the communities not served by both are very small

I suspect that if the GN & NP had owned a Milwaukee-serving route to Chicago, they would probably have run their trains that way too

And given that, it should run to Minneapolis, no small city.

Rockingham Racer wrote: ↑Wed May 06, 2020 12:02 pm And given that, it should run to Minneapolis, no small city.

Thus giving us one of four options for service to Minneapolis:
A) Use the existing Minneapolis Target Field station, currently with one island platform which can't fit an existing Amtrak Hiawatha service. (Or build an extended station under the actual stadium)
B) Restore Minneapolis Great Northern with through tracks to any and all destinations (with some rerouting and track laying of course)
C) Restore Minneapolis Milwaukee Road Station (A good terminus for trains which start/end at Minneapolis, with some rerouting off course)
D) Construct an entirely new Minneapolis station, capable of holding frequent amount of commuter, intercity, LD and even high speed rail service somewhere within the city, not miles away from it.

I've always been surprised that the Builder doesn't stop at all in Minneapolis. Compare the Starlight, which stops in Seattle & Tacoma, Vancouver & Portland, Emeryville & Oakland, Burbank & Los Angeles

While I agree that service to Minneapolis would be a good thing (and two seat rides < than one seat rides) but keep in mind that Target Field and St Paul Union are connected by the greenline LRT. The LRT trip clocks in at about an hour (according to the interwebs), but this is probably not much slower than Amtrak would be if there was 10+ minutes of dwell time at St Paul Union. No reason why Amtrak could not provide riders with a metro ticket on request (this is already done on the Piedmont service in NC).