Amtrak Downeaster Discussion Thread

[FtHill1231]

Perhaps New Hampshire can have a mini state liquor store cart when the DE and Vermonter is running through their state?

[MEC407]

• It took the commission 21 YEARS to notice that alcohol is served onboard the Downeaster? It's not exactly secret information. It's actually one of the train's biggest selling points. This doesn't reflect well on the commission's ability to effectively and efficiently regulate the industry.

• How did they find out, anyway? Did they receive a complaint? Did a commissioner recently ride the train for the first time?

I missed this paragraph when I read the Press Herald story this morning:

The rail authority’s executive director, Patricia Quinn, was told the commission did a routine audit this year to determine who was and wasn’t following the purchasing rule – and that audit turned up the Downeaster, which has been operating since 2001.

This begs the question: how many other businesses have been running afoul of New Hampshire's alcohol laws for 20+ years? Maybe they should do their "routine audits" a bit more often.

A Liquor Commission spokesman did not respond to questions about the crackdown.

Probably too embarrassed about their failure to do the most dead-simple part of their job.

[Red Wing]

I love this. NH refuses to give any money towards the Downeaster, benefits from the service and, now oh we will charge you to travel through our state.
Live Free or Die!

[ExCon90]

[*]Buy limited quantities of nips, beers etc. in NH for sale specifically while in New Hampshire. Probably far too complicated to keep track of behind the counter, plus, again, they'd have to be stocked in Portland which might fall afoul of Maine law.[/list]

I'm dredging up memories of the past here, but I believe that cross-border trains such as NY-Toronto and NY-Montreal, and maybe day trains NY-Detroit, had separate stocks which were kept in locked cabinets which were opened only in the relevant country (locked and unlocked by Customs officials of the country concerned, for all I know). That could be made to work again, and if the trains had to be stocked in NH, just add five minutes or so to a NH stop and call it a smoke stop. Local passengers could live freer if they could enjoy refreshments on board.

[MEC407]

From the Portland Press Herald:

CONCORD, N.H. — Riders on an Amtrak train that runs from Maine to Boston can continue to buy alcoholic beverages during the 35-mile stretch of the trip that goes through New Hampshire as officials work out a “creative solution” to avoid violating a state liquor law, officials said.
. . .
Meanwhile, alcohol sales will continue as usual.

“It’s our understanding that the liquor sales on board will not need to be suspended in New Hampshire, and we’re very grateful of that,” said Patricia Quinn, executive director of the rail authority.

Source: https://www.pressherald.com/2023/03/08/ ... r-for-now/

[markhb]

Maine and New Hampshire have had a long-standing situation over liquor sales, going so far as the Maine State Police running stakeouts on the Portsmouth Circle store to watch for cars with Maine plates buying greater-than-personal quantities (essentially, looking for restaurant purchases which are legally supposed to be made in Maine).

Those from outside New England reading this thread may be surprised to hear of the Granite State's fireworks law: it is illegal to shoot off unpermitted (i.e., personal) fireworks in New Hampshire, but it is legal to sell them... to people from other states. I am not sure how that market has been affected since Maine legalized them a decade ago.

[S1f3432]

Years ago when I was a MEC employee working out of Bartlett, NH, we could routinely expect the truck from the Stores Department in Waterville to make deliveries to the Mountain Sub section houses on Friday. The return trip to Waterville included a stop at a certain store in Glen for a sizable return shipment to the stores dept. Everyone knew the Maine State Police watched the NH liquor store in Conway as well as the State Line Store on Rt 302 but apparently the Glen store was too far away for them and prices were 60% less compared to Maine. But NH has always been predatory towards it's neighboring states beginning years ago with lottery tickets, state line liquor stores, people cheating on income taxes and auto registrations- the fireworks bs is just another recent example.

[FatNoah]

it is illegal to shoot off unpermitted (i.e., personal) fireworks in New Hampshire...

This isn't quite true. The state allows a fairly broad range of "permissible" personal fireworks that you are allowed to use on your own property or another's property with the owner's permission. Individual towns can add their own restrictions, though.

In any case, with its limited tax base, it's not surprising that NH audits for noncompliance in liquor sales, though it is surprising a) that it took this long and b) the Vermonter wasn't mentioned.

[STrRedWolf]

it is illegal to shoot off unpermitted (i.e., personal) fireworks in New Hampshire...

This isn't quite true. The state allows a fairly broad range of "permissible" personal fireworks that you are allowed to use on your own property or another's property with the owner's permission. Individual towns can add their own restrictions, though.

In any case, with its limited tax base, it's not surprising that NH audits for noncompliance in liquor sales, though it is surprising a) that it took this long and b) the Vermonter wasn't mentioned.

Well, who does the food on the Vermonter? Amtrak or an outside vendor, because the Downeaster we know is an outside vendor (and Amtrak just operates the train).

[Allouette]

Amtrak operates the food service on the Vermonter.

The NH Liquor Control commission has agreed to allow sales to continue on the Downeaster while this gets sorted out. Gov. Sununu offered to buy the first round on his Instagram (@ChrisSununu).

[electricron]

Several remedies come to mind:

1. New Hampshire changes their law. I'm willing to bet that "just buy in New Hampshire" would fall afoul of a similar law in Maine, so that won't work.
2. Some sort of federal preemption under either railroad regulations or the Interstate Commerce clause. The former might be tricky since the liquor license is held by the contractor, not Amtrak or NNEPRA,
3. Buy limited quantities of nips, beers etc. in NH for sale specifically while in New Hampshire. Probably far too complicated to keep track of behind the counter, plus, again, they'd have to be stocked in Portland which might fall afoul of Maine law.

The 21st Amendent recending the 18th gives the states exclusive power over alcohol.
Twenty-First Amendment
Section 1
The eighteenth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.
Section 2
The transportation or importation into any State, Territory, or possession of the United States for delivery or use therein of intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof, is hereby prohibited.
Section 3
This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by conventions in the several States, as provided in the Constitution, within seven years from the date of the submission hereof to the States by the Congress.

No interstate commerce law is ever going to cancel a Constitution Amendment.

[charlesriverbranch]

It astonishes me that this is so controversial. They don't sell alcohol on buses, after all.

As for Governor Sununu, I doubt if he's ever been on the Downeaster in his life. His state doesn't contribute a penny toward running it.

[Ken W2KB]

It astonishes me that this is so controversial. They don't sell alcohol on buses, after all.

Some buses do: " An attendant came by frequently during the four-hour trip to check on passengers and pass out snacks, coffee, wine and soda." https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/19/trav ... y-bus.html

[markhb]

The typical intercity bus only has the driver to be in charge, and of course it's running in mixed, non-dispatched traffic.

Plus, a cocktail on the way home after a conference is a nice plus to riding the train.

[markhb]

Also: I just had the privilege of seeing 684 and 681 meet (or at least pass by within 30 seconds of each other)! I don't think that usually happens right where I am but I could be wrong.