Amtrak Downeaster Discussion Thread

[jscola30]

I'm having understanding something. Why was money set aside for the extention to Brunswick if money hasn't been set aside for the rest after 2009?

[gokeefe]

jscola30:

Two separate funding actions have occurred by the state government. First the state budgets which run on a two year cycle have included the continued subsidy for the Downeaster. Second the legislature has also set aside money from the STAR fund which generates revenenue from rental car taxes in the state. It is not unusual in any state for rental car taxes to be used to pay for infrastructure improvements. It may be somewhat exceptional that the projects being considered are for passenger rail service.

The state hasn't set aside money past 2009 because they haven't started working on that budget yet anyways so in theory nothing, including basic state entitlement programs are funded beyond 2009.

gokeefe

[NHN503]

Numbers for this "year" were officially released this week. June-June, passengers up 28% and ticket revenue up 33%.

[scoopernicus_in_Maine]

Numbers for this "year" were officially released this week. June-June, passengers up 28% and ticket revenue up 33%

This is excellent news. You wouldn't have a link to the data would you?

I had a great ride on the Downeaster (and the Acela Express) earlier this month and its fantastic to see so many people riding it. Bodes well for the eventual expansion to Brunswick.

[NHN503]

Numbers for this "year" were officially released this week. June-June, passengers up 28% and ticket revenue up 33%

This is excellent news. You wouldn't have a link to the data would you?

I had a great ride on the Downeaster (and the Acela Express) earlier this month and its fantastic to see so many people riding it. Bodes well for the eventual expansion to Brunswick.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/200 ... ster_N.htm

[gokeefe]

Noting some of the earlier discussion regarding the purpose of the Downeaster, I think it is worth saying that the train, as marketed, is intended to appeal to both markets commuters and tourists alike.

I think in the big picture there is also more to it than meets the eye. With the expansion to Brunswick the Downeaster will be able to feed off of several branch lines including the Lewiston Lower Road, the Augusta Lower Road and the Rockland Branch. Some of these lines will take some time to have operations but the Rockland branch will probably have some kind of commuter service on day one.

The Downeaster then would become a trunk service for all of these lines that would feed into Brunswick which will have some type of multiple frequency schedule but perhaps not the same one as Portland. By having as much capacity in place as possible before the new service to Brunswick starts NNERPA is wisely choosing to stay ahead of the power curve to enable them to serve new markets that will come online in addition to Brunswick the day service begins there. Anything less than trains with plenty of seats for new passengers on the first day would be interpreted as less than successful.

Furthermore, as the train begins service in Freeport daytime departures should rise substantially during all times of the year from all points of origin. If the train begins servicing these new areas without the necessary capacity they might as well not even go there in the first place. Based on a recent briefing I saw from Patricia Quinn, Executive Director of NNERPA, "Brunswick Here We Come!" could accurately be described as the frame of mind she seemed to be working from any changes to the serving right now should be looked at within the context of what they are trying to achieve in 2009.

That means in order to serve whole new markets of passengers in 2009 the Downeaster cannot be running at 95%+ load factor. That may be why they're adding roundtrips and extra seats that may not seem to make sense right now.

gokeefe

[NHN503]

I think that adding the additional trip would be great. There are several times I want/need to go to Boston and would love to take the DE from Dover, but I would either have a 1 hour turn around or a ~6hour turn around. Putting that additional train right in the middle would give a nice amount of time to do something and turn back. As of right now I have to drive to Haverhill to take the T or drive so that I am not wasting time in Boston waiting for my return DE train.

[scoopernicus_in_Maine]

For purely selffish reasons, a train that left Boston at 3:00 or 3:30 would be ideal for me to use the Downeaster to Commute to work between Portland and Biddeford and back.

[Dick H]

The issues of approval from Guilford/PAR and the MBTA for a sixth round trip aside, I can't see how a sixth round trip can be accomplished with just the two trainsets. Many of the trains have a turnaround time at Boston or Portland of just 40 minutes. The longest turnaround time appears to be one hour and 45 minutes at Boston for #684 to become #685. As it is, when one train becomes substantiantly late, whether due to the MBTA, PAR or equipment problems, the schedule for the rest of the day often falls apart.
And, of course, when the 40 MPH "heat restriction" goes on, the entire schedule is toast for the rest of the day.

It might be possible to run a very late departure from Portland after that trainset had its overnight servicing, maybe even a deadheading move, so as to have an early morning departure from Boston to Portland. But even a 6:00AM or so Boston departure would require moving back the Portland departure of #682 and would snowball into moving back other trains.

It would seem another train set will be needed to stretch some of the trains to/from Brunswick, so with more equipment it might be possible to squeeze in another Boston trip, but there will be many hurdles to cross.

Dick

[gokeefe]

Keep in mind that as planned, not every train will go to Brunswick. I haven't heard this repeated too recently, so maybe with the ridership increases they have decided to attempt sending all six daily roundtrips to Brunswick but that is not what I heard/read about in the past.

[gokeefe]

Recent photos of the Downeaster show five cars on every trainset. Is this now the Standard Opertaing procedure for the train?

http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?20080 ... 413527.jpg

http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?20080 ... 613573.jpg

Does anyone know what the chances/intention are of adding a sixth car?

[MEC407]

They've always added a fifth car during the summer months. We'll have to wait and see if that fifth car stays around after Labor Day. A sixth car seems unlikely at this point in time, in my opinion.

[Dick H]

During this past April school vacation, they had six cars on one set and five on the other. Either then or right after that, both sets got the five and have kept them ever since. Even so, there are still sold out trains. #685 was sold out yesterday and #692 was sold out this morning.

I agree that you probably won't see six cars on either set in the near future. First of all, the original contract between Amtrak and NNEPRA was for four cars. Anytime they added a fifth car, it reportedly cost NNEPRA an additional $17,000 a month for that fifth car or $34,000 a month for two. Perhaps, NNEPRA has been able to negotiate a better rate, as the five cars have become permanent.

In addition, Amtrak is pretty short of Amfleet cars with the large increase in overall ridership nationwide. Amtrak carried more passengers in July, than any month since it began running in 1971. They are overhauling and returning a number of coaches that had been stored, but it is reported that the average cost is at least $700,000 per car and funding issues are a problem. It remains to be seen if the Downeaster could get more cars, even if NNEPRA wants to pay.

Dick

[gokeefe]

$17,000 per month is an interesting figure for a train that runs 7 days a week.

Take a look at the following math.

$17,000/month divided by 30 days = $566/day

$566/day divded by average use of 5 trips per day = $113

Assuming average seating of 75 per Amfleet (I think this is conservative),

Then we have an average cost per passenger of $1.50 assuming the train car is full however if we only assume 2/3 load factor the we get $2.26.

Now some people might say that this then adds up to being a subsidy by the state for the passengers but in fact it is not. The small investment in capacity actually reduces many cost factors for NNERPA because their labor and overhead are fixed. Adding another passenger car or two or three does not equate to having to add more staff. I don't know how big a train has to get before the size of the crew is increased but I would imagine it is a lot more cars than just 1-3.

I think from this point of view it is easy to say that adding cars for the Downeaster is a bargain as long as they are selling out. Furthermore, I strongly believe that the high load factors are related to an increase in the daily commuter load and travel by Mainers on track instead of on the road for trips to Boston, which would justify maintaining the increase in consist size on a permanent basis.

[gokeefe]

Another great month for the Downeaster, 34.3% ridership increase:

See the Train Riders Northeast Website for more...

http://www.trainridersne.org/Home/I021114C2