Amtrak: Connects US // American Jobs Plan Infrastructure Legislation

That is indeed it. Several Amtrak regional-corridor routes overlap with commuter-rail service: MBTA (Boston), Shore Line East (New Haven), Metro-North (NYC), SEPTA (Philadelphia), MARC (DC - Baltimore), Virginia Railway Express (DC), Metra (Chicago), Sounder (Seattle - Tacoma), Metrolink (LA), Coaster (San Diego).

The proposal contains roughly 21 existing corridor services and 30 new ones. I say "roughly" because some of them are ambiguous in some way. Of the new ones, 13 run in existing long-distance routes, 7 in former Amtrak routes, 8 are new routes, unless one counts pre-Amtrak routes, 1 connects 2 Canadian cities (Windsor - Toronto, Windsor is across the river from Detroit), and 1 is that existing commuter-rail line (LIRR).

Regional corridors using long-distance routes may not be as strange as it might seem, because that how some existing ones got started, like the Capitol Corridor and the northern part of the Pacific Surfliner.

At least one route was originally an Ambus route: Stockton - Sacramento of the San Joaquins.

The newer and expanded corridor routes got that way because of support from the states that they run through. So which new ones get started and which expansions get done will depend on the vagaries of states' politics. It's something like local rail-transit systems -- their development is very patchy, with some cities being several years ahead of neighboring cities.

Overlap, sure. Typically they share the same tracks, not always the same stations, but have different end destinations. Ronk would not benefit from Amtrak unless the Amtrak train came from somewhere beyond Penn. Now that could be helpful.

I believe the Ronkonkoma trips are an extension of three Keystone round-trops.

I thought that Ronkonkoma service was supposed to be an extension of the Empire Corridor, since both have third-rail power on their lines, while the Keystone Service only uses overhead catenary for power.

EC trains, presumably, are pulled by DM's (over running) to get into Penn and out to Queens and Sunnyside, so that ought to work. I guess if I were in NYS's Senate or Assembly that would make an easy, albeit a bit slow trip. But who else would need it?

Students going to Albany?... Students going to SUNY Stonybrook? I can't see too many other reasons...

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Empire Service is dual-mode diesel-electric... but it doesn't switch to electric until it hits Penn Station from what I can tell, and that's over-run LIRR third rail. It does have catenary lines though, so there's that.

One-stop seat Albany to Ronkonkoma? Possible. But look at the maps. What's close there? Long Island MacArthur Airport, aka Islip Airport, ISP. So what direct flights goes there?

• Southwest: Baltimore*, Fort Lauderdale, Nashville, Orlando, Tampa, West Palm Beach
• American: Philadelphia
• Frontier: Atlanta, Fourt Lauderdale, Fort Myers, Las Vegas, Miami, Myrtle Beach, Orlando, Tampa, West Palm Beach
• Breeze: Charleston, Norfolk.

I stared the one that has an Amtrak station, but I bet you know some destinations that look competitive:

• Philadelphia with an extended Keystone.
• Baltimore with a connection at Penn or some NEC extensions.
• Everywhere else, with at least one connection... except for Las Vegas.

Now, lets see now... BWI to ISP... $104, flight's usually an hour but you have to be there 2 hours beforehand no matter what because BWI, so that's 3... VS Amtrak, which if you limit the stops to Penn, Jamaica, Hicksville, and Ronkonkoma (maybe Farmingdale) will be an hour on top of the 3 between BWI and Penn... but coach is $26, and LIRR is another $20 at most on top of that.

$104 to fly over $46 and be an hour late? Decisions decisions...

eolesen wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:32 am Students going to Albany?... Students going to SUNY Stonybrook? I can't see too many other reasons...

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There are Long Island students going to places like Binghamton, Scranton, Alfred, Buffalo, Bucknell, and others for whom bus services stink. And SUNY Stony Brook has LIRR but very poor timing (like nothing east bound in the morning or westbound in the evening.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:10 pm Empire Service is dual-mode diesel-electric... but it doesn't switch to electric until it hits Penn Station from what I can tell, and that's over-run LIRR third rail. It does have catenary lines though, so there's that.

One-stop seat Albany to Ronkonkoma? Possible. But look at the maps. What's close there? Long Island MacArthur Airport, aka Islip Airport, ISP. So what direct flights goes there?

• Southwest: Baltimore*, Fort Lauderdale, Nashville, Orlando, Tampa, West Palm Beach
• American: Philadelphia
• Frontier: Atlanta, Fourt Lauderdale, Fort Myers, Las Vegas, Miami, Myrtle Beach, Orlando, Tampa, West Palm Beach
• Breeze: Charleston, Norfolk.

I stared the one that has an Amtrak station, but I bet you know some destinations that look competitive:

• Philadelphia with an extended Keystone.
• Baltimore with a connection at Penn or some NEC extensions.
• Everywhere else, with at least one connection... except for Las Vegas.

Now, lets see now... BWI to ISP... $104, flight's usually an hour but you have to be there 2 hours beforehand no matter what because BWI, so that's 3... VS Amtrak, which if you limit the stops to Penn, Jamaica, Hicksville, and Ronkonkoma (maybe Farmingdale) will be an hour on top of the 3 between BWI and Penn... but coach is $26, and LIRR is another $20 at most on top of that.

$104 to fly over $46 and be an hour late? Decisions decisions...

ISP is a bad joke if you want to get somewhere you need to be, beyond a vacation spot. We'd considered it over the years for a number of trips - tended to be far more expensive and saved little time even with the hassle and expense of car services to JFK or LGA versus driving ourselves to ISP. And to get to places that are, say, a 3 hour drive, can take 10 to 20 hours via ISP, as you fly around half the US to get to your destination. So some through Amtrak service could be nice if well done. But then again, if LIRR were a lot more reliable and with better service, it wouldn't be horrible for many trips to take it to NYP to transfer to Amtrak. But in real life, you've got to take a LIRR train that should get you to NYP hours before your Amtrak train is set to depart. But for going places, say Montreal, that's not viable. You'd have to leave home many hours ahead.

STrRedWolf wrote: Now, lets see now... BWI to ISP... $104, flight's usually an hour but you have to be there 2 hours beforehand no matter what because BWI, so that's 3... VS Amtrak, which if you limit the stops to Penn, Jamaica, Hicksville, and Ronkonkoma (maybe Farmingdale) will be an hour on top of the 3 between BWI and Penn... but coach is $26, and LIRR is another $20 at most on top of that.

$104 to fly over $46 and be an hour late? Decisions decisions...

I don't know anyone showing up more than an hour before their flights... especially those who have PreCheck. But I'll split the difference and give you 30 minutes and make it 2.5H.

Amtrak won't leave instantly from Penn, and I'd bet it's at least an hour wait between trains. And we know there'd only be one or two per day at best, so jumping on the LIRR will add at least 30 minutes to what Amtrak would operate. With the wait or connecting on the LIRR, it's at least 5H.

So BWI to ISP is easily half the time to fly. And avoiding any time in Penn sounds worth it based on all my trips thru there...

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eolesen wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:26 pm

STrRedWolf wrote: Now, lets see now... BWI to ISP... $104, flight's usually an hour but you have to be there 2 hours beforehand no matter what because BWI, so that's 3... VS Amtrak, which if you limit the stops to Penn, Jamaica, Hicksville, and Ronkonkoma (maybe Farmingdale) will be an hour on top of the 3 between BWI and Penn... but coach is $26, and LIRR is another $20 at most on top of that.

$104 to fly over $46 and be an hour late? Decisions decisions...

I don't know anyone showing up more than an hour before their flights... especially those who have PreCheck. But I'll split the difference and give you 30 minutes and make it 2.5H.

Amtrak won't leave instantly from Penn, and I'd bet it's at least an hour wait between trains. And we know there'd only be one or two per day at best, so jumping on the LIRR will add at least 30 minutes to what Amtrak would operate. With the wait or connecting on the LIRR, it's at least 5H.

So BWI to ISP is easily half the time to fly. And avoiding any time in Penn sounds worth it based on all my trips thru there...

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Another aspect is this. I almost always took an Amtrak Metroliner and later Acela Express from Newark, NJ to Washington, DC, for meetings, hearings or settlement conferences at the Federal Power Commission, later Federal Energy Regulatory Commission or Edison Electric Institute ("EEI") task force meetings. I thereby amassed Amtrak rewards free travel which I could and did use for leisure/vacation travel. On a few occasions, I suggested to my co-workers who also made frequent NJ - DC business travel trips, and exclusively flew from Newark Airport, why not take Amtrak? Their answer was, "I want the airline frequent flyer miles to use on vacations." I replied, Amtrak has a similar program with points for free travel. Their answer was "If I fly to my vacation spot, I can be on the beach in a few hours, even that same day afternoon. Taking the train, such as to Florida, means I spend a couple or three days of my vacation on a train instead of at the resort."

Rail travel with a sleeper can be very nice, though not so much on the East coast right now without edible food. I did one round trip many years ago when still single, no sleeper, and still enjoyed it, because it was comfortable, the food was excellent, and the view nice. I lived in Manhattan then so NYP was easy to get to. But since I got married it was all by air, for lots of reasons. But today, unless an employer required it or we were going too far, it would be train. The last straw for me was taking my family first class on Delta, getting an experience that reminded me of flying in coach on Air Egypt in the early 1980's. Worn out plain, lousy food, lounges not up to the standards in Mumbai, ground staff that was nasty and unhelpful, and more. And I'm not even talking about 'insecurity' - what I have experienced in the US was the worst of any country I've been in including India. And my inlaws (at the time in their 80's and in wheelchairs) were treated like dirt by that well known 3 initial agency. In contrast, while Amtrak's far from perfect, I've few complaints except for the Cafe cars.

I am not sure I believe it but the Detroit Free Press is (kind of) reporting that CP has given the go ahead for the Windsor Tunnel to be used for Chicago Toronto service. The article is not super explicit, and it may just be focused on the hope that CP will make some new allowances for Amtrak as part of the merger.

A mega freight railroad merger appears to put a Detroit-to-Toronto passenger rail connection closer to reality.

Amtrak, which provides much of the passenger rail service in the United States, said it has gotten a commitment of cooperation for its own expansion plans from Canadian Pacific Railway Limited, which has a $25 billion acquisition deal with Kansas City Southern.

Amtrak said its plans include adding passenger rail service through the Detroit River Tunnel connecting Detroit and the cities of Windsor and Toronto in Ontario through VIA Rail Canada. Connecting Toronto via Detroit with Chicago and its many connections could go a long way toward improving service for U.S. rail passengers, who currently deal with a rail network that leaves many cities without direct connections.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/detroit-toro ... 01271.html

Easy for CP to offer that right now, as it would likely be some years before service could be implement. I assume they would use the current Detroit station site, but they'd have to build something new in Windsor (can't access the Via station coming from Detroit).

Mergers are allowing Amtrak to make good progress on solving track access issues for a significant chunk of ConnectUS. Stars appear to be aligning in some locations:

CP Detroit River tunnel access (mentioned upthread)
CP/ KCS New Orleans-Baton Rouge (New Orleans will become an actual hub for service should Mobile get worked out)
KCS / CP Speedway Access Bham to Dallas (I-20 Corridor)
CSX New England Access (including Albany-Wocester)
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... r-service/
https://www.marshallnewsmessenger.com/n ... f6978.html

Plus progress on the Raleigh-Richmond S-Line (NC plans to complete its track purchase from CSX shortly)

As a Charlotte resident I would really like to see some movement on ATL-CLT but that is certainly not low-hanging fruit.