Amtrak combining the Silver Star and Capitol Limited (a new Floridian?)

There's no way to get from New Jersey to New England other than through those tunnels, unless by boat.

In 1975, I took a train from Copenhagen, Denmark, to Frederiksborg, and they put the train, with us on it, on a ferry to get it to the Jutland peninsula from the island of Zealand, where Copenhagen is. But do such ferries even exist any more?

charlesriverbranch wrote:There's no way to get from New Jersey to New England other than through those tunnels, unless by boat.

Theoretically, I think a northbound train into Penn could back out through Empire Connection to Spyten Duyvil, then proceed forward through Mott and up the Shore line to all New England points.

Yes probably impractical due to need for a tow locomotive (diesel or third rail), but far more practical than a boat.

I think the LSL did a strange move via New Rochelle (probably requiring a backup?) at one point when Empire was down and GCT was impractical.

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 10:15 pm Could 48/49 use BOS as a terminal during the duration with no separate 448/449?

Or have the Meteor run through to New England to avoid Sunnyside and run in place of a Regional, allowing
local passengers north of WAS.

48/49 doesn't use the tunnels.

markhb wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 9:50 am

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 10:15 pm Could 48/49 use BOS as a terminal during the duration with no separate 448/449?

Or have the Meteor run through to New England to avoid Sunnyside and run in place of a Regional, allowing
local passengers north of WAS.

I've never actually taken a train into New York, so please forgive the ignorance behind this question.... but wouldn't running the Meteor to New England have to use the East River tunnel that is being restricted, regardless of Sunnyside? Or is there a surviving cutover in Westchester that would allow a train to get from the Hudson River line to Connecticut?

I think R36 is saying to take the slot the Meteor uses to get to Sunnyside, and a slot a Regional uses, combine them, and send the Meteor in the single slot up to Boston.

MattW wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 1:43 pm I think R36 is saying to take the slot the Meteor uses to get to Sunnyside, and a slot a Regional uses, combine them, and send the Meteor in the single slot up to Boston.

Exactly. Takes one LD out of Sunnyside while combining the Meteor with a Regional to make the best use when tunnel slots are limited.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 1:13 pm

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 10:15 pm Could 48/49 use BOS as a terminal during the duration with no separate 448/449?

Or have the Meteor run through to New England to avoid Sunnyside and run in place of a Regional, allowing
local passengers north of WAS.

48/49 doesn't use the tunnels.

Doesn't the 48/49 equipment use the tunnels to be turned and serviced at Sunnyside?

Tan:

charlesriverbranch wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 11:28 amIn 1975, I took a train from Copenhagen, Denmark, to Frederiksborg, and they put the train, with us on it, on a ferry to get it to the Jutland peninsula from the island of Zealand, where Copenhagen is. But do such ferries even exist any more?

When through train service between Turkey and Iran was started in 1971, it was necessary to establish a train ferry across the 56 mile length of Lake Van in Turkey. A Shore Line route would be like Southern Connecticut, too difficult for a cheap and quickly constructed line.
Through Italian trains between the mainland and Sicily still use a train ferry across the Straight of Messina.
As least as late as the mid 1990s, an Argentine railway sent a sleeping car on a train ferry across the Paraná River between Posadas and Encarnación to to be padded to a wood burning steam powered train to Asunción. My father rode it in the late 1940s and thought it seemed ancient even then.

JimBoylan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 4:51 pm Tan:

charlesriverbranch wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 11:28 amIn 1975, I took a train from Copenhagen, Denmark, to Frederiksborg, and they put the train, with us on it, on a ferry to get it to the Jutland peninsula from the island of Zealand, where Copenhagen is. But do such ferries even exist any more?

Shore Line route would be like Southern Connecticut, too difficult for a cheap and quickly constructed line.
Through Italian trains between the mainland and Sicily still use a train ferry across the Straight of Messina.
As least as late as the mid 1990s, an Argentine railway sent a sleeping car on a train ferry across the Paraná River.

If the tunnel situation is really bad, some BOS-WAS through trains could use the NYNJ Rail Ferry via Bayonne as diesels.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 1:13 pm 48/49 doesn't use the tunnels.

Huh? You’re kidding, right?

For the record, 48’s equipment overnights in SSY before going back out as 49 the next afternoon.

charlesriverbranch wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 11:28 am There's no way to get from New Jersey to New England other than through those tunnels, unless by boat.

In 1975, I took a train from Copenhagen, Denmark, to Frederiksborg, and they put the train, with us on it, on a ferry to get it to the Jutland peninsula from the island of Zealand, where Copenhagen is. But do such ferries even exist any more?

Even that one's gone -- replaced by a bridge-tunnel combination.

Tadman wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 5:08 pm
But instead we're going to interline with a train out of Chicago so it has a chance to (...) run into the typical mess in NW Indiana...

Yet another idea that would only make sense AFTER they fix the South Side Swamp and South of the Lake.

Erie-Lackawanna wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 7:39 pm

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 1:13 pm 48/49 doesn't use the tunnels.

Huh? You’re kidding, right?

For the record, 48’s equipment overnights in SSY before going back out as 49 the next afternoon.

They don't use the Hudson tunnels. The Empire tunnels are a different story -- they have to take them to get to Sunnyside.

Before everyone says something, I'm assuming that they're closing a Hudson tunnel. If they're closing one of the three Empire tunnels, that's different -- that'll lighten up the pressure a bit but I won't be surprised if they go all out anyway.

It's the East River tunnels.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 6:05 am

Erie-Lackawanna wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 7:39 pm

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 1:13 pm 48/49 doesn't use the tunnels.

Huh? You’re kidding, right?

For the record, 48’s equipment overnights in SSY before going back out as 49 the next afternoon.

They don't use the Hudson tunnels. The Empire tunnels are a different story -- they have to take them to get to Sunnyside.

Before everyone says something, I'm assuming that they're closing a Hudson tunnel. If they're closing one of the three Empire tunnels, that's different -- that'll lighten up the pressure a bit but I won't be surprised if they go all out anyway.

I think we need a little clarification on the naming system for the tunnels.

The tunnels that run from NYP to New Jersey under the Hudson are the "North River Tunnels/Tubes"
The tunnels that run from NYP to Sunnyside/points east are the "East River Tunnels"
The tunnel that trains use traveling to/from the Hudson Line is part of the "Empire Connection"

48/49 use the East River Tunnels to access Sunnyside for servicing.

Okay, before we go further, lets dig a bit and find the context. I had to recheck and here's the big clue.

Erie-Lackawanna wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 6:55 pm After inquiring with people in the know, I’ve been told the current plan is to combine and through run the Capitol and Silver Star as one train. No firm date has been decided; as Mr. DowlingM suggests, it is to reduce movements through the East River Tunnels while Line 2 is rebuilt. The plan is to run it as a single-level train, and no, psgrs will not be booted off at WAS. Apparently, the working train name at the moment is…the Floridian.

Track 2, per OpenRailwayMap, is through JO interlocking and connects to tracks 5-17. That's practically ALL south-of-NYP and the Empire connection equipment. So, if I can correct myself...

Step 1: Push-pull Keystone, NEC, and Empire service equipment, so they can be reloaded on the platforms and serviced in Philly/Harrisburg, DC, and Albany.

That leaves long-term services, such as the Silver Services, plus NEC-north-of-Penn services.

What's next? Creating a "Capitol Star" would save on the Superliner equipment, and do Viewliner end-to-end. Plenty of NEC trains to do a connection ether-or. Lake Shore Limited going to Boston all the way. Truncate NEC services and ask Grand Central for slots in split services.

I can see it better now.