Amtrak Borealis: fka Empire Builder 2nd Daily Frequency Chicago - St Paul

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2024 10:01 pm So when the bypass is put back in, why not make center platform high ?

I'm not sure what their plans are, it's probably posted somewhere online.

In the past I've advocated for having a high platform built in Chicago at a dedicated track, as the Hiawathas already have an unofficial dedicated track. Do the same at Milwaukee Airport only on the southbound side, maybe with gauntlets for CP freight clearance (not many passengers are landing at MKA, then catching a train downtown fifteen minutes away). Then do the same on the northerly (track 1?) at MKE downtown station, so the Hi always comes in on #1 and the Builder always comes in on #2, along with any detoured freight.

This always made a lot of sense to me in a low budget setting. That said I don't disagree with the yard tracks upgrade as freights have to go very slow through the station as that curve between the station and the bridge is really sharp, which bogs down the delays even more.

SX: There is NO current reason to construct a high-level platform at Milwaukee Station...
Only Amtrak's single-level consists would be able to use a high-level platform...The time
savings would be neglible at best...MKE has ADA lifts available when needed...

With Superliners and on occasion outside equipment such as METRA gallery cars built for only low-level
platforms they would then be able to use only the single north track/platform - and may even require the
construction of a gauntlet track for freight trains to pass through MKE if necessary...

Not worth the hassle...MACTRAXX

Easier said than done, as CP will still be running freight thru as needed and clearance has to be maintained.

The east end of the stub platform tracks are wheel stopped. There didn't appear to be clearance for adding turnouts to make thru tracks because of the post office support columns.

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Every map of the station trackage including Wisconsin DOT's for the freight bypass shows turnouts allowing trains to access to every platform from the east, but that southern most track in the station is a stub facing west (i.e., that there are 4 thru tracks in the station).

Streetview from Plankton Ave only shows the two tracks. Prior to the new train shed, there was no way to have turnouts because of the columns. The overhead USPS structure was only engineered for two thru tracks, not four.

If they moved the platforms west with the new shed construction, it's possible there is enough clearance now. I've not been there since the new shed opened, and I don't plan to anytime soon.

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MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 1:50 pm SX: There is NO current reason to construct a high-level platform at Milwaukee Station...
Only Amtrak's single-level consists would be able to use a high-level platform...The time
savings would be neglible at best...MKE has ADA lifts available when needed...

With Superliners and on occasion outside equipment such as METRA gallery cars built for only low-level
platforms they would then be able to use only the single north track/platform - and may even require the
construction of a gauntlet track for freight trains to pass through MKE if necessary...

Not worth the hassle...MACTRAXX

I think the discussion of high levels in Milwaukee is more for boarding expediency than ADA compliance. If you have a full trainload of passengers on the Hiawatha that's 5-6 cars *70 passengers, it's a lot of people to load. They play this game called "how few doors can we open" which makes for this crowded mass of 300+ people trying to get on 2-3 doors. It sucks. High platforms would work for both Hiawatha sets and the Borealis provided they continue to use Horizon, Amfleet, and Siemens cars.

Tadman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2024 9:47 am I think the discussion of high levels in Milwaukee is more for boarding expediency than ADA compliance. If you have a full trainload of passengers on the Hiawatha that's 5-6 cars *70 passengers, it's a lot of people to load. They play this game called "how few doors can we open" which makes for this crowded mass of 300+ people trying to get on 2-3 doors. It sucks. High platforms would work for both Hiawatha sets and the Borealis provided they continue to use Horizon, Amfleet, and Siemens cars.

This, basically, is the key. Stairs on trains slows loading times. METRA requires folks to go up to board the train in their gallery (*shudder*) cars, which makes them ordering their replacements with level boarding oh so much better. Yeah, they still have to go up stairs for more seating but you can spread things out to help, or maybe have another set of doors to have high-level boarding.

Build just ONE island high-level platform for handling the crowd on Horizon/Amfleet/Airo cars. Keep the rest low-platform for Superliners, METRA, and freight. Make sure there's interlocks on ether side of the station. Best of both worlds.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2024 10:52 am

Tadman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2024 9:47 am I think the discussion of high levels in Milwaukee is more for boarding expediency than ADA compliance. If you have a full trainload of passengers on the Hiawatha that's 5-6 cars *70 passengers, it's a lot of people to load. They play this game called "how few doors can we open" which makes for this crowded mass of 300+ people trying to get on 2-3 doors. It sucks. High platforms would work for both Hiawatha sets and the Borealis provided they continue to use Horizon, Amfleet, and Siemens cars.

This, basically, is the key. Stairs on trains slows loading times. METRA requires folks to go up to board the train in their gallery (*shudder*) cars, which makes them ordering their replacements with level boarding oh so much better. Yeah, they still have to go up stairs for more seating but you can spread things out to help, or maybe have another set of doors to have high-level boarding.

Build just ONE island high-level platform for handling the crowd on Horizon/Amfleet/Airo cars. Keep the rest low-platform for Superliners, METRA, and freight. Make sure there's interlocks on ether side of the station. Best of both worlds.

Exactly, I have family who would take it from chicago to MKE, and anything that would speed it up would help.
Frequent corridor service should mean all door boarding and unloading . Including at Mitchell Airport and Chicago.
I didn't think Metra gallery cars would be going there, is that part of the proposed Rancine -MKE service, along the coast?

I wouldn't rule out Metra cars showing up on the KRM corridor... they're going to have a surplus if the Alstom deliveries happen.

After watching a couple YT videos, it does appear there are indeed turnouts under the far end of the shed. Tracks 2 and 3 are the CP mains, with 1 and 4 accessible from the east from turnouts at the east end of the train shed.

Putting high platforms on track 1 wouldn't be disruptive to CP - it doesn't interfere with the freight mains, but its directly accessible from the heck in lobby and would require some construction. The island platform for tracks 4 and 5 could probably also be raised since most of not all PV's have traps, and those tracks don't interfere with CP.

But the escalators and elevators are already there, so any platform raising would have to be ramped up from those points (which might not be user friendly). Moving elevators and escalator isn't cheap.

That leaves the island platform between tracks 2 and 3 for Superliners and low level boarding cars like gallery or BBD's.

KRM = Kenosha-Racine-Milwaukee

Metra should be able to make use of the 200 cars, which will leave some of the Nippon Sharyo cars surplus.

That's one of the proposals.

Reinstating the line to St. Francis and into downtown would be the easiest routing. CP would want to triple track if it shifted to their main, and I suspect UP can make do with just the New Line for their operation.

I don't know that I would couch it as competition with Amtrak. If it follows the template that seems to be happening with the Rockford service, it would not necessarily operate continuously Chicago to Milwaukee. It could operate under contract Kenosha to Milwaukee, or maybe as an extension of the existing up north, but I think this is at least 10 years away from actually happening.

The other alternative would be to contract with Herzog or someone else that does commuter service.

I think contracting with Metra would be a safer option. Anyone else trying to set up a dedicated operation just for the KRM corridor is going to have a much higher operating cost than what Metra would be able to do with their shops and support already in place.

Yep, its a long history, but with Metra facing huge budget shortfalls, it's entirely possible that the hope of incremental revenue might preempt some of the decisions made 14 years ago.