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  • Amtrak ACS-64 Sprinter Discussion

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1227908  by DutchRailnut
 
They are not allowed in revenue service till testing is completed, they will probably run solo.
Its not a great vote of confidence if you double up a brand new unit that has been tested to be trouble free.
Bet your A** there will be a RFE or tech's riding, incase Engineer has problem.
You know the railroad, they buy a 7 million American Peso's Locomotive, yet Engineer gets 50 centavos tour and training session ;-)
 #1228323  by Tadman
 
Why are the ACS's in the middle of the engines every time? Doesn't that make for more work at Sacramento and Chicago to fish them out? IE you have to uncouple the power from itself as an extra step?
 #1228324  by Tadman
 
Why are the ACS's in the middle of the engines every time? Doesn't that make for more work at Sacramento and Chicago to fish them out? IE you have to uncouple the power from itself as an extra step? And isn't there some type of FRA reg that mandates that dead-in-tow locomotives go immediately behind the live power? I'm no expert here, just trying to understand. Obviously I see that they're not going to flagrantly violate the rules.
 #1228348  by ACeInTheHole
 
Tadman wrote:Why are the ACS's in the middle of the engines every time? Doesn't that make for more work at Sacramento and Chicago to fish them out? IE you have to uncouple the power from itself as an extra step? And isn't there some type of FRA reg that mandates that dead-in-tow locomotives go immediately behind the live power? I'm no expert here, just trying to understand. Obviously I see that they're not going to flagrantly violate the rules.
I think the front engine is added to stay with the ACS wherever its going, so you can just cut off the ACS with the front locomotive and transfer it to the next train, while the rear two live engines are the normal power for whatever train. Question is though how do they get where theyre going from Washington? Are they run on their own power following post delivery inspection via test extra? Also have any of the others aside from 602 begun testing up and down the NEC?
 #1228353  by JamesRR
 
beanbag wrote:
JamesRR wrote:ACS-64 #603 sitting in Yard E (behind what looks like a lot of construction work).
Yard E doesnt mean much to those of us with only a vague familiarity with yard locations and names. As such, I do not know where 603 is by means of just the term Yard E. Location please?
Apologies - Penn Station, NY. South side of open cut between 9th and 10th Avenue, along the retaining wall.
 #1228354  by amtrakhogger
 
beanbag wrote:
Tadman wrote:Why are the ACS's in the middle of the engines every time? Doesn't that make for more work at Sacramento and Chicago to fish them out? IE you have to uncouple the power from itself as an extra step? And isn't there some type of FRA reg that mandates that dead-in-tow locomotives go immediately behind the live power? I'm no expert here, just trying to understand. Obviously I see that they're not going to flagrantly violate the rules.
I think the front engine is added to stay with the ACS wherever its going, so you can just cut off the ACS with the front locomotive and transfer it to the next train, while the rear two live engines are the normal power for whatever train. Question is though how do they get where theyre going from Washington? Are they run on their own power following post delivery inspection via test extra? Also have any of the others aside from 602 begun testing up and down the NEC?
The 603 was testing on the Harrisburg Line and is currently in Sunnyside Yard for training purposes.
 #1228521  by ApproachMedium
 
Normally unless there is a mechanical problem its sandwiched between two diesels which will make the trip all the way from Sacramento to Washington DC. If all the planets are aligned I believe the entire train set goes from one end of the country to the other.
 #1228675  by 25Hz
 
ApproachMedium wrote:Normally unless there is a mechanical problem its sandwiched between two diesels which will make the trip all the way from Sacramento to Washington DC. If all the planets are aligned I believe the entire train set goes from one end of the country to the other.
Man oh man what a cab ride that'd be!!!
 #1228686  by dt_rt40
 
A few odd questions about towing these. Obviously the brake and electrical (both power and control) systems on US locomotives are standardized. But is there a standard control setting that completely opens the motor circuits? Do you set them to "coast" or "neutral" or something? Or do they default to that when they are not connected to catenary power...i.e., the contactors are spring loaded to a normally-open position, or something? If, in theory, one of these ever had to be towed by a freight locomotive, can they be switched a generator-only setting that would generate HEP using the motors?
Also do they use compressed air for power switching like the Acela does, or do they use batteries? Is that compressed air system independent of the air brakes or connected?
 #1228773  by ApproachMedium
 
Any time any US locomotive is not drawing its own power the traction motors free roll. In order to get them to become a generator (DC Traction motors) They need a load, such as the resistor grids on the roof. No DC locomotive I know of in the US can make anything other than heat when in generation mode. The fundementals behind the reason why this is, is quite complicated. I would have to really go over it in person with drawings and schematics and give a better backround on electrics both ac and dc based traction to better understand why it does not work.

An AC traction motor needs DC Link Line voltage. You cant just take an electric locomotive and roll it at track speed and have it generate power for coaches. It needs to have the high voltage DC link charged via the catenary first. Once its charged and the motor is running off the overhead wire if it never goes below a set speed (23MPH HHP-8/HST, 35-40MPH ALP46A) they will continue to provide HEP via regen from the traction motors should the MCB open, disconnecting the overhead from the transformer during operation. So any time the train hits a dead section it can keep the cars HEP plus all loco accessories online while tractive effort is offline until the MCB is closed.

I do believe the new loco uses both air and electromagnetics for switching of high voltage bus switchgear in the electrical system. Any time an electric locomotive uses a system like this with air its called a control air system and there is an AUX compressor used to keep it constant when main air compressor is offline. This could be when main circuit breaker is opened, line voltage is lost or at initial start up of the locomotive to configure circuits, raise pantographs and close the main circuit breaker. The AUX Comp runs off battery voltage. The control air system is interconnected with the air brake main res system via check valves. Another loco or shop air can charge control air in a dead loco or loco with failed main air compressor but the aux compressor can NOT provide any air for the air brake system.
 #1228809  by train2
 
I am only qualified on diesels, but I would guess this works the same on an electric: The unit would be set to isolate, which in theory still allows fault circuits to communicate with the head end to indicate things like locked axles, etc. to the engineer via he MU cable. The only thing I don't know is how power, not traction, but electrical (not talking catnery either) is handled. Can a loco make a cross country trip and have things powered like the computer on battery power only? I can't quite remember if battery's are charged thru the MU cable? Again this in rare territory have an electric stay off power for so long.

As to why they put them in the middle I can't say. It would be just as easy to switch out if coupled behind the two road units. And since they are going terminal to terminal there is not incentive to have the rear unit provide HEP while the lead unit sets the electric out. You would still have to shut the HEP down to uncouple the consist.

What does having the units in between allow? I can't yet figure it out?
 #1228842  by nomis
 
Handbrakes ... and possibly also brakes, if the brakes are cut out for the cross country trek.
 #1228845  by DutchRailnut
 
On a revenue train, brakes can never be less than 100% when leaving a terminall, so the brakes are cut in, including independent brake, HEP is fed thru so battery is charged, and slip slide is active.

the a ACS-64 has a parking brake, not a hand brake, it applies when brakepipe drops below a certain pressure with springs, and releases when brake pipe is charged
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