• All Things Portal Bridge: Amtrak and NJT Status and Replacement Discussion

  • This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.
This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

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  by photobug56
 
Repairs I'm talking about would be done overnight, perhaps quietest parts of weekends, and would not wait for a new tunnel to be in service. Benefit would be more reliable service in those tunnels far sooner.

Now does anyone know if the tunnel max speed could be improved if the tunnels got their repairs?
  by STrRedWolf
 
photobug56 wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:15 am Repairs I'm talking about would be done overnight, perhaps quietest parts of weekends, and would not wait for a new tunnel to be in service. Benefit would be more reliable service in those tunnels far sooner.

Now does anyone know if the tunnel max speed could be improved if the tunnels got their repairs?
I doubt it, given the construction and elevations involved.

In context, when they were brand-spanking new (a century ago), a trip from Hoboken to NYP was 10.5 minutes. Tracing a possible path puts it at 13-and-change miles. 60 MPH for 5 minutes means you're covering 8 miles in 5.5 minutes... which is roughly 88 mph. Given the track outside the tunnel on the NJ side is 90 MPH, totally possible.
  by photobug56
 
So I'd like to be optimistic and think that the sooner the tunnel infrastructure has been repaired, the sooner they could raise tunnel speeds. I don't know what shape the switches and west side yard are now in, but if good for the most part, at least by then, it could allow a higher hourly train count into and out of Penn on the Hudson side. If the work on the station tracks, and the east switches ever gets done, that also helps. But I would think that the 4 track east river tunnels also need the same sort of repairs but again, doing it the 'new' way seems to work fairly well, or at least buys time and improves operations fairly soon.
  by ExCon90
 
Back in the 60's the time through the North River Tunnels daylight to daylight (when there still was daylight west of 9th Ave.) was four minutes, daylight to stop at platform five minutes. If by West Side Yard you mean '"A" Interlocking west of the platforms (West Side Yard is not involved in movements to New Jersey) the switches are good for 15 mph, and there doesn't seem to be any room to remedy that. No doubt the whole layout could stand beefing up, but there's no hope of increasing speeds through the interlocking.
  by Backshophoss
 
NY Penn has been rebuilt recently after a rash of derailments, but will always a 15 mph MAS station wide since it's a terminal station
With the "box" close to finished,waiting for the Gateway tunnels to be built, A interlocking will go thru another revision
Figure on some new wire on the tracks that are now 3rd rail only.
There is only funding for one of the two bridges needed ,If the Coast Guard approves the closure of the waterway at the current Portal Bridge
that could be straight railed ,easing the pain for a while
  by lensovet
 
photobug56 wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:15 am Repairs I'm talking about would be done overnight, perhaps quietest parts of weekends, and would not wait for a new tunnel to be in service. Benefit would be more reliable service in those tunnels far sooner.
that has been going on for years and continues to this day on weekends. that's why there are only NY-bound trains in the first half of the hour throughout the day, because one of the bores is closed, and the other bore is used for inbound trains for the first half of the hour and for outbound trains for the second.

most recent post on this is https://media.amtrak.com/2019/12/amtrak ... arly-2020/.
  by pumpers
 
Here we go (for the portal bridge, that is)! In my lifetime, even. https://www.nj.com/politics/2021/01/fed ... ridge.html
JS
(I am assuming states or other local agencies have already committed their shares, but I really don't know that).
EDITS:
1. The article says bids are to be received this spring, decisions by the fall, construction starting Spring 22, perhaps...
2. The quote from Kevin Corbett makes it sound like NJT will be managing the project. Is that right? Amtrak owns the ROW and bridge, no?
  by pumpers
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:47 pm ...
In context, when they were brand-spanking new (a century ago), a trip from Hoboken to NYP was 10.5 minutes. Tracing a possible path puts it at 13-and-change miles. 60 MPH for 5 minutes means you're covering 8 miles in 5.5 minutes... which is roughly 88 mph. Given the track outside the tunnel on the NJ side is 90 MPH, totally possible.
I'm catching up here. STrRedWolf, Is "Hoboken" a typo? 13 miles from NY Penn Station puts you just past the Newark Airport stop (which didn't exist a century ago, of course).
JS
  by lensovet
 
pumpers wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:23 pm 2. The quote from Kevin Corbett makes it sound like NJT will be managing the project. Is that right? Amtrak owns the ROW and bridge, no?
Yes, NJT is the lead agency for the bridge. Given the %% of NJT trains running over it and the amount of money the state is providing for it, it makes sense.
  by STrRedWolf
 
pumpers wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:53 pm I'm catching up here. STrRedWolf, Is "Hoboken" a typo? 13 miles from NY Penn Station puts you just past the Newark Airport stop (which didn't exist a century ago, of course).
JS
Nope, not a typo. Per Wikipedia, there was a Hoboken to Penn trip, non-stop. Secaucus Junction didn't exist then, so I'm assuming there *was* a connection that allowed it to hook up to what is now the NEC in the direction heading from Hoboken to Penn.

I like to do a bit of research for my posts. ;)
  by pumpers
 
Hmm... I don't know of any previous connection, and in any case, a change in locomotives due to the electric power for the tunnels would have been required even if a connection existed.
Perhaps they were referring to the Hudson Tubes (Hudson & Manhattan RR, now PATH). There is an underground route from Hoboken directly to Herald Square (6th Ave & 33rd St), which is about 1 long block from Penn Station (at 7th Ave).
~100 years ago what is now the Herald Sq station was one block further south I think, but that's still 1 long block to Penn Station, more or less.
STrRedWolf wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:58 am
pumpers wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:53 pm I'm catching up here. STrRedWolf, Is "Hoboken" a typo? 13 miles from NY Penn Station puts you just past the Newark Airport stop (which didn't exist a century ago, of course).
JS
Nope, not a typo. Per Wikipedia, there was a Hoboken to Penn trip, non-stop. Secaucus Junction didn't exist then, so I'm assuming there *was* a connection that allowed it to hook up to what is now the NEC in the direction heading from Hoboken to Penn.

I like to do a bit of research for my posts. ;)
  by Backshophoss
 
The only connections to the NEC are at MMC,the"waterfront"NEC to NJT M&E Main,the other is the "Direct" From the NJT M&E Main to the NEC
both require a voltage change from 12,5 kv,25 hz (NEC standard) or 24kv,60hz(NJT standard)
Might have been a freight connection/interchange somewhere in the PRR Waverly Yards complex
  by nkloudon
 
>>Per Wikipedia, there was a Hoboken to Penn trip, non-stop. <<

Wikipedia is unverified and written by amateurs. Prior to the recent "waterfront" connection there was no way to connect from the DL&W to the PRR. Even today, such a change required a change of direction. Perhaps the writer had Hoboken confused with Newark?
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