All things Harrisburg (Keystone) Line

While 15 minutes isn't hours, it still adds up in the end. It could really benefit a person who is connecting to a train or a bus at a different station. As for between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh, I don't want to go too far off topic but a good start would be adding more track capacity wherever needed. That can lead to a lot of travel time being reduced from the schedule for the Pennsylvanians.

Week of August 29 the schedule features 9 round trips between Harrisburg and Philadelphia plus the Pennsylvanian. 7 eastbound round trips to New York and 6 westbound from New York to Harrisburg in addition to the Pennsylvanian.

njtmnrrbuff wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:14 am Amtrak doesn't need to run to Philly Int'l Airport. Septa Regional Rail already serves the terminals so they should continue. As for the Keystone Corridor, I would love to see 110-125 mph speeds in more spots on the Keystone Corridor besides in Lancaster and Dauphin Counties like maybe rest of Malvern in places like through Thorndale. I look forward to seeing more high level platforms get built at the Keystone Corridor stations-I know that Downingtown is overdue. I believe that the current station location is supposed to get moved a little to the east to accommodate full length high level platforms. At Parkesburg Station, it should be easy, given the fact that the station is already on a straightaway. I would also like to possibly see a station added somewhere between Parkesburg and Lancaster. I know that in the past, there were proposals to build a station in Paradise.

what's the point of raising speeds to 125 mph if you're going to add a station and slow it right back down? It would probably make more sense to rebuild parkesburg and extend SEPTA there while dropping it from most Keystone runs to improve trip time. the number 1 issue on the Keystone corridor for trip time is the achingly slow run from overbrook to 30th st which I'd think could be sped up to 80 mph (cutting it in half).

airport: I think an agreement to allow through ticketing to the airport would help

Suburban Station wrote:what's the point of raising speeds to 125 mph if you're going to add a station and slow it right back down? It would probably make more sense to rebuild parkesburg and extend SEPTA there while dropping it from most Keystone runs to improve trip time. the number 1 issue on the Keystone corridor for trip time is the achingly slow run from overbrook to 30th st which I'd think could be sped up to 80 mph (cutting it in half).

Amish/mennonite community probably wouldn't be happy with that. It's already too long a distance without stations between Lancaster and Parkesburg, and you want to make it longer? I'm going to guess that is not going to be very popular with several PA reps in that area (in addition to US Senator Lloyd Smucker, I would predict).

Then maybe they should add even more stations and run express or skip-stop trains. If you're limited to one type of service, there has to be a balance between serving everyone, and fast service. Maybe it's time to split the Keystone into two service classes (OOH! I know! We can run the Acela 1s on the faster schedule! [yes, I'm kidding, that topic has been beat to death])

gp80mac wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:16 pm

Suburban Station wrote:what's the point of raising speeds to 125 mph if you're going to add a station and slow it right back down? It would probably make more sense to rebuild parkesburg and extend SEPTA there while dropping it from most Keystone runs to improve trip time. the number 1 issue on the Keystone corridor for trip time is the achingly slow run from overbrook to 30th st which I'd think could be sped up to 80 mph (cutting it in half).

Amish/mennonite community probably wouldn't be happy with that. It's already too long a distance without stations between Lancaster and Parkesburg, and you want to make it longer? I'm going to guess that is not going to be very popular with several PA reps in that area (in addition to US Senator Lloyd Smucker, I would predict).

I think eliminating Parkesburg is a non-starter unless SEPTA service is extended back to Parkesburg. Chester County has been pushing for SEPTA service to Atglen with Parkesburg and Coatesville being additional stops. Amtrak does pick up some commuters at both stops going both directions in the morning as well.

We may have reached the point where the market can support two levels of service, as suggested above, with expresses breaking the 90-minute barrier PHL-HBG by skipping as many intermediate stations (except Paoli and Lancaster) as necessary to achieve that, followed about 10 minutes later by a stopping train (best not call them locals) making all intermediate stations offering significant ridership potential. It wouldn't be the first time that additional revenue exceeded the additional cost.

Especially after all the money that has been spent on track, signaling, and station improvements -- the next effort has to be to attract the ridership to fulfill expectations.

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:45 pm We may have reached the point where the market can support two levels of service, as suggested above, with expresses breaking the 90-minute barrier PHL-HBG by skipping as many intermediate stations (except Paoli and Lancaster) as necessary to achieve that, followed about 10 minutes later by a stopping train (best not call them locals) making all intermediate stations offering significant ridership potential. It wouldn't be the first time that additional revenue exceeded the additional cost.

I could see there being an hourly service Harrisburg to Philly, and then an hourly express which goes on to NYC - and as today, churn at Philly enables seats to be sold twice.

Or maybe the other service could run down to DC, if there was a slot? And it could make the Newark/Aberdeen slots occasionally - although those folks may want NYC.

And then Septa for truly local service.

cle wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:19 pm

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:45 pm We may have reached the point where the market can support two levels of service, as suggested above, with expresses breaking the 90-minute barrier PHL-HBG by skipping as many intermediate stations (except Paoli and Lancaster) as necessary to achieve that, followed about 10 minutes later by a stopping train (best not call them locals) making all intermediate stations offering significant ridership potential. It wouldn't be the first time that additional revenue exceeded the additional cost.

I could see there being an hourly service Harrisburg to Philly, and then an hourly express which goes on to NYC - and as today, churn at Philly enables seats to be sold twice.

Or maybe the other service could run down to DC, if there was a slot? And it could make the Newark/Aberdeen slots occasionally - although those folks may want NYC.

And then Septa for truly local service.

In a perfect world, SEPTA would operate to Harrisburg stopping at every interim stop with peak express trains to the Philly suburbs that skip a few stops (A la GVF). Amtrak would then no longer need to serve stops like Coatesville or Middletown nearly as much, if at all.

rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:36 pm
I think eliminating Parkesburg is a non-starter unless SEPTA service is extended back to Parkesburg. Chester County has been pushing for SEPTA service to Atglen with Parkesburg and Coatesville being additional stops. Amtrak does pick up some commuters at both stops going both directions in the morning as well.

that's the idea. Parkesburg is largely a Philadelphia commuter station, extend SEPTA to Parkesburg and have them run regular flyer service as far west as parkesburg which negates the need for atglen. Parkesburg and Coatesville are Amtrak stops mainly because SEPTA abandoned service to them.

gp80mac wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:16 pm

Suburban Station wrote:what's the point of raising speeds to 125 mph if you're going to add a station and slow it right back down? It would probably make more sense to rebuild parkesburg and extend SEPTA there while dropping it from most Keystone runs to improve trip time. the number 1 issue on the Keystone corridor for trip time is the achingly slow run from overbrook to 30th st which I'd think could be sped up to 80 mph (cutting it in half).

Amish/mennonite community probably wouldn't be happy with that. It's already too long a distance without stations between Lancaster and Parkesburg, and you want to make it longer? I'm going to guess that is not going to be very popular with several PA reps in that area (in addition to US Senator Lloyd Smucker, I would predict).

the opposite is true, there are already too many stations and there isn't much population density in between. Lancaster county is decidedly oriented towards lancaster city. isn't smucker the anti-Amtrak guy?

mcgrath618 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:49 pm

cle wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:19 pm

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:45 pm We may have reached the point where the market can support two levels of service, as suggested above, with expresses breaking the 90-minute barrier PHL-HBG by skipping as many intermediate stations (except Paoli and Lancaster) as necessary to achieve that, followed about 10 minutes later by a stopping train (best not call them locals) making all intermediate stations offering significant ridership potential. It wouldn't be the first time that additional revenue exceeded the additional cost.

I could see there being an hourly service Harrisburg to Philly, and then an hourly express which goes on to NYC - and as today, churn at Philly enables seats to be sold twice.

Or maybe the other service could run down to DC, if there was a slot? And it could make the Newark/Aberdeen slots occasionally - although those folks may want NYC.

And then Septa for truly local service.

In a perfect world, SEPTA would operate to Harrisburg stopping at every interim stop with peak express trains to the Philly suburbs that skip a few stops (A la GVF). Amtrak would then no longer need to serve stops like Coatesville or Middletown nearly as much, if at all.

sounds like a horrific ride, it takes SEPTA as long to get to downingtown as it does Amtrak to get to lancaster. why wouldn't people just drive? I think regular express service as far as Parkesburg should suffice. Amtrak could keep PAR and COT for select reverse commute service but drop them from their regular schedule. FWIW, SEPTA is scheduled to resume service to COT though who knows what happens if they don't get additional funding.

The Harrisburg high speed Metroliner service (stillborn) was originally supposed to be a SEPTA service, and even
single unit Silverliners ran in Harrisburg service in the 1970s, so there is some precedent for SEPTA to Harrisburg.

However Dauphin and Lancaster counties are not members of SEPTA.

Septa doesn't need to go past the Coatesville area. I would be fine if it ran as far as Atglen. They could build a station there as well as a yard so that way trains wouldn't have to backtrack to Frazier. Even if they ran as far as Coatesville, I would say build a yard to the west of there. Eventually Amtrak wants to run a lot more trains on the Keystone Corridor. Coatesville is fine as an Amtrak Station as its a pretty large town. Middletown needs to remain an Amtrak Station as this would be like an alternative for people who live east of Harrisburg who don't want to drive into Downtown HAR to catch a train. Plus the future Middletown Station will be located a lot closer to the airport and there may be people who decide to take an Amtrak train to the plane.

We can forget SEPTA to Harrisburg. Silverliners -- with or without toilets -- are not going to attract additional riders. And good luck getting Lancaster and Dauphin Counties to join SEPTA.