All Things Cascades incl Vancouver

RandallW wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 7:33 am As far as I can tell, the Talgo trains that remain in use on the Cascades line are the property of the state of Oregon, and those trains (albeit pooled with the other Cascades train b/c having maintenance bases in Seattle and Portland would be expensive) provide services to the State of Oregon, and obviously the state considers them a useful benefit and protection against a catastrophic failure of I-5

Well, explain this "State of Oregon" owned train on an State of Washington exclusive route, now completely disabled and out of service, while I-5 is providing the "protection against a catastrophic failure of Amtrak".

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/amtrak ... WKBMC3VWE/

Surely, Washington State is going to call its Legislature into an Emergency Session to prioritize repairs to this train, the property of the State of Oregon, and also to provide emergency funding for replacement service between Portland and Eugene at zero expense to the State of Oregon, since WSDOT is legally fully responsible for the damage (and potential replacement cost) of this train, right? And this needs to be an absolute emergency with replacement rail service TOMORROW. Right?

Right?

Guess the train ain't so critical afterall. Maybe Microsoft, Amazon and Boeing can pitch in a few bucks for it.

electricron wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2024 9:01 am So you want Oregon to give away their recently bought brand new Talgo trainsets, which they now own and allow Amtrak to use, for 30 year old Horizon railcars?

Well, what's your response now, that WSDOT destroyed $25 million of State of Oregon property? On a non-Oregon train?

Call me, when Governor Inslee authorizes an EMERGENCY train order at whatever cost, to ensure Oregon is paid IN FULL for their debacle. This should have never happened. And if Oregon were to pull the subsidies for Amtrak Cascades tomorrow, I say good riddance. Washington can fix their own problems. Why should we have subsidized a train with just 47 passengers on board, to burn 10 times the fuel and spew 10 times the carbon emissions as a bus to do the exact same job? And now, I-5 is the one providing the emergency relief service (along with whatever bus WSDOT managed to find.)

I think it is wrong to blame Washington state for trees falling in high winds across the tracks.
But why was Amtrak running the trains? How many times has Amtrak stopped trains during weather warnings for high winds? Why not do the same in the Pacific Northwest?

The good news to report is that it appears only the Talgo cab car was damage. The bad news is that Oregon did not buy a spare cab car - which by the way Wisconsin did for their two ill-fated Talgo train sets. Not sure if this is great news or not, but the three F40 Cabbage cars belong to Oregon. Cabbage cars have run on Talgo trains before, I suppose they can again, at least until the damage Talgo cab is repaired.

electricron wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 10:03 pm Talgo

Were these things not supposed to be running, period?

The last 2 sets are the ones built in Milwaukee, and are fully compliant.

David Benton wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 1:43 pm The last 2 sets are the ones built in Milwaukee, and are fully compliant.

Big difference between Mod 6 and Mod 8 Talgo trainsets. Mod 6 were running under a waiver; Mod 8 are not using a waiver, they are fully FRA compliant. The last two trainsets ordered by Oregon are Mod 8 versions, the earlier sets ordered by Washington and Amtrak were Mod 6 versions. That's why the Mod 6 sets had locomotives or F40 cabbage cars on either end of the train, and why Mod 8 sets use a cab car on one end.

Presumably , if a loccomotive can control the set from one end , it has standard control wiring.
Not so sure about HEP, i think the Platypus contained a genset for this?

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Fri Nov 22, 2024 2:30 pm Wow. it's a wonder that when that tree was uprooted by the "cyclone" and slammed into the "Duckbill Platypus", the Engineer was not more seriously injured.

Given a tree hitting that way, it's pretty good performance. Someone at Talgo did their homework, as ugly as those cars are.

IIRC, a telephone pole hitting end on at 350 mph is / was used as a standard object for nuclear plant containment design, in part because it is a brutal amount of energy hitting in a small area.

electricron wrote:I think it is wrong to blame Washington state for trees falling in high winds across the tracks.

WSDOT fully and completely knew the danger, and was neglegent in failing to maintain vegetation resulting in property damage to State of Oregon owned property that is now out of service. WSDOT has refused to accept liability resulting in transportation damage to Oregon residents in terms of lost mobility and critical transportation needs as we are in the Thanksgiving holiday. This means lost trips for vulnerable persons that cannot use other modes of transportation. Who is covering that? Is Amtrak providing charter buses, limos and chartered aircraft? Is WSDOT?

electricron wrote:The good news to report is that it appears only the Talgo cab car was damage. The bad news is that Oregon did not buy a spare cab car

Why should Oregon be required to pay another $12M (in 200...whatever costs, now significantly higher) just to have revenue passenger equipment sitting around on a dead track somewhere, with full regular maintenance just to ensure that train is ready to roll? That train isn't actually improving or increasing mobility rusting to the rails...

The argument for passenger rail is taking a very, very serious hit right now, proving that Amtrak Cascades is hardly the "essential alternative to our overcrowded and congested highways and Interstate 5" - but rather nothing more than a very expensive novelty that WSDOT and ODOT are not taking seriously, and the foamer apologists are trying to keep hush hush that we have lost a major amount of capacity during arguably Amtrak's PEAK travel period of the year, and yet the public at large isn't batting an eye. What's the argument FOR Cascades now? It isn't an alternative, it isn't reliable, it serves far fewer people, even elected officials don't use it...so...why are we doing this?

Provide proof WSDOT had any rights to trim back the tree that fell. As far as I can tell the tree wasn't on WSDOT property; it was either on BNSF property or on other private property adjacent to the railroad. Or are you seriously suggesting that people or states should have unilateral rights to trample all over other people's adjacent property in name the protecting their property? (I don't and lets just say I am extremely happy not to live under a HOA.)

I'm not seeing any signs that any Cascades services were cancelled (other the end of that train's then current trip), so it looks like someone was ensuring there was sufficient capacity to ensure the services could stay functional (which means having the capacity for planned or unplanned maintenance). I'm also seeing that ODOT closed roads and even CA DOT closed I-5 due to the same storm, so maybe anytime there's a forecast of heavy winds and precipitation in your area, all transport including highways should just be shutdown?

Why don't you let the railroads (including Amtrak and the DOTs) just get on with the business of fixing the train instead of screaming the sky is falling because it's taking more than a week to fix major damage? It's an almost 20 year old train, and s*** happens, so if Oregon's insurance carrier deems the train totaled, ODOT got some good use out of it, otherwise it'll get fixed and put back in service, but until that decision is made, there is absolutely nothing for ODOT to report.

ODOT never paid for the locomotives hauling that train, WSDOT (Siemens Chargers) or Amtrak (F59PHIs) is paying for the ability for that train to move at all, so maybe you consider that the service was a joint service between the states -- ODOT paid for 2/7th coaches and WSDOT for everything else, or that ODOT didn't pay enough for the train because they failed to buy locomotives to haul it.

Is ordering 8 new trains for delivery in 2026, each with a greater capacity than the existing trains, not taking this service seriously? Were you somehow expecting that somehow Siemens had built those trains on spec in hopes someone would buy them?

Looking at some USDOT statistics that $12M ODOT paid for the train would have gotten ODOT something between 3-6 miles of 1 extra lane in 1 direction on I-5 in a rural area or 1 mile or less of extra lane in an urban area, so consider how that $12M could otherwise have been spent (note that resurfacing a lane is ~1/2M per lane mile so factor that into your math).

I can't tell what you want other than Oregon to stop subsidizing rail services, but your sky is falling rants because a single train gets damaged isn't doing your arguments any favors either.