ALC-42E Acquisition and Planned Operation

Suspect that the Battery combinations are a result of NY NTA wanting them. That IMO a hope that Amtrak will return to NYG sometime in future. That IMO is [very unlikely/ It will be less expensive to just add 12.5 kV 60 hZ CAT along the west side. Third rail would probably need substations every 2 - 3 miles plus the heavy cables to carry the current. Only just 2 substations for the CAT. That way M-8 type EMUs could run along west side. Then Amtrak can run thru train APVs through Albany - WASH and south.

BTW none of the NY Central 3rd rail installation will be reuseable. Instead, removal and cable mining of the remnants will be costly. IMO since the west side is Amtrak no one will want 3rd rail installations needed to go past the Spuyten swing draw bridge

I'm going to guess, amtrak wants to avoid the over/under 3rd rail shoe issue, for trains that do through running from ex NYC to ex LIRR.
Otherwise, they could have unpowered collection shoes on trucks on the APVs.

If the Airo cab cars and ALC42Es allow forward emergency access, the battery equipped Airo trainsets could return to GCT if some shutdown of the west side connector occurred without any equipment changes to minimize the disruption to the Empire Corridor.

west point wrote:Suspect that the Battery combinations are a result of NY NTA wanting them. That IMO a hope that Amtrak will return to NYG sometime in future. That IMO is [very unlikely/ It will be less expensive to just add 12.5 kV 60 hZ CAT along the west side. Third rail would probably need substations every 2 - 3 miles plus the heavy cables to carry the current. Only just 2 substations for the CAT. That way M-8 type EMUs could run along west side. Then Amtrak can run thru train APVs through Albany - WASH and south.

BTW none of the NY Central 3rd rail installation will be reuseable. Instead, removal and cable mining of the remnants will be costly. IMO since the west side is Amtrak no one will want 3rd rail installations needed to go past the Spuyten swing draw bridge

What third rail??? The mile or so in the Empire tunnel? Once again why are we trying to reinvent the wheel.

Wait I know lets string wire for 10 miles. Then when we get to MNRR we can switch to third rail for 22 ish miles. Then go to diesel at Harmon. That way we can cover DC, AC, and Diesel electric power. Meanwhile I have mother fuq'd the system three times going through mode changes that I have written up for the last two weeks because it is not working correctly. Cause we all know its just going to work perfectly right out of the box.

See: The Charger, The Avelia

For Empire service, I still fail to see why electrifying on the 25kv system north of Croton Harmon, and running dual system EMUs is so freaking hard to do.

Not to mention, wiring up to Springfield and down to Richmond.

Seriously, Amtrak needs to get over its fear of catenary.

Why are we bothering with all these silly tow around transformer cars and batteries, when the solution is already running in the US?

How do you propose Amtrak convince the owners of those tracks to allow catenary on their tracks?

How much will electrification to Roanoke, Norfolk, or Newport News cost (that's right, only ONE train terminates in Richmond, so you are still either changing engines in DC and Richmond or still towing the APUs) compared to the cost of pulling the weight of the APU equipment (based on the difference in weight between a Venture coach and an M8, maybe 30 tons) over the life time of that equipment?

In the Northeast, every stretch of ROW that Amtrak owns (not that some state or other entity owns) and uses for revenue services is electrified except the Empire Connection, the 1st Street tunnel south of DC, and maybe some station trackage, so clearly Amtrak has strung catenary along every route it can except for the 10 miles along the west side of Manhattan and doesn't have a fear of electrification.

Nasadowsk wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 6:57 pm For Empire service, I still fail to see why electrifying on the 25kv system north of Croton Harmon, and running dual system EMUs is so freaking hard to do.

Not to mention, wiring up to Springfield and down to Richmond.

Seriously, Amtrak needs to get over its fear of catenary.

Why are we bothering with all these silly tow around transformer cars and batteries, when the solution is already running in the US?

In this universe you want NYS/MNRR to string wire from Harmon to Poukeepsie then NYS/Amtrak to Albany? For Amtrak? Please allow me to introduce you yo Kathleen Hochul. She cares about the railroad as much as I do in getting a root canal. New York State is broke, busted, in debt, got no cake, bread or otherwise. I pay enough to live here and do not need another Government boondoggle putting my tax dollars to bad use. See Stupersteel. I mean Supersteel.

RandallW wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2024 7:43 pmIn the Northeast, every stretch of ROW that Amtrak owns (not that some state or other entity owns) and uses for revenue services is electrified except the Empire Connection, the 1st Street tunnel south of DC, and maybe some station trackage, so clearly Amtrak has strung catenary along every route it can except for the 10 miles along the west side of Manhattan and doesn't have a fear of electrification.

Not the Springfield Line. The problem is lack of funding combined with ridiculously high construction costs. Also, lack of a systemic approach.

The whole greater NYC area should be looked at as a system. If that were done, the following is the logical electrification east of Hudson:

1. 25kV/60 to SPG.
2. PRR 3rd rail to Oyster Bay, Port Jeff, Patchogue, and all tracks at LIC. Beef up for full acceleration.
3. Beef up existing NYC 3rd rail system to Southeast for 12-car sets.
4. 25kV/60 to Danbury/New Milford.
5. Replace NYC 3rd rail from Highbridge shops to Croton-Harmon with 25kV/60 catenary, extend to meet 11kV/25 down west side, and extend north to Albany.

ElectricTraction wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2024 5:21 pm
Not the Springfield Line. The problem is lack of funding combined with ridiculously high construction costs. Also, lack of a systemic approach.
The whole greater NYC area should be looked at as a system. If that were done, the following is the logical electrification east of Hudson:

It is a system, but entrenched outfits refuse to change their fiefdoms.

ET - When I read your electrification proposals for the greater NYC/NEC area my reply is as follows:

1-NHV to SPG and the rest of the Inland Route via Worcester to Boston should be looked at as an
upgraded and electrified HSR route offering an alternative to the Shore Line...CT Rail's two routes
(SLE, NHHS) could be both run with electric MU cars offering more frequency and flexibility - along
with the MBTA's Framingham-Worcester Line trains on this routing...

2-Adding LIRR Third Rail will be proposed provided MTA Capital Program funding is available...
One of the the top priorities was the electrification of the Central Branch (Bethpage-Babylon)
adding flexibility to two electrified routes (Ronkonkoma and Babylon Branches) and then the
Port Jefferson Branch, Montauk Branch to Patchogue and east of Ronkonkoma in that order.

3-The MNCR Upper Harlem Line electrification extension (NWP-Brewster-SE) was constructed
in the middle 1980s just prior to the LIRR's Hicksville-Ronkonkoma Electrification (mid 1985 to
1987) and should have adequate substation capacity for longer MU trains - Does the ridership
warrant extra expenditures (such as longer platforms) on the UHL?

4-The current level of Danbury Branch service does not warrant electrification.
Is there any future CT Rail plan to electrify to Danbury?

5-Electrification and full replacement of third rail on the 142 mile NYP/NYG-ALB route will have a
multi billion dollar price tag for MTA and NYS DOT for both Amtrak and MNCR services. A project
of this magnitude will take multiple years - and may have strong NIMBY opposition from some
lineside communities opposed to the infrastructure that goes along with overhead catenary...

In closing RJ has a general idea how a megaproject like this #5 proposal would be received by
those holding pursestrings along with some of the General Public...MACTRAXX

New topic for around NYC: electrification-around-nyc-t177367.html