• airbrake freezing in winter

  • Discussion of Electro-Motive locomotive products and technology, past and present. Official web site can be found here: http://www.emdiesels.com/.
Discussion of Electro-Motive locomotive products and technology, past and present. Official web site can be found here: http://www.emdiesels.com/.

Moderator: GOLDEN-ARM

  by xerxes
 
we have problem with air brake freezing and my questiones are :
1-what we can do in short time for solving problem.
2-what should we do for future for equiping loco against freezing.

  by LCJ
 
First off, air doesn't freeze -- the water in the air freezes. Most major railroads have equipped locomotives with air dryers that, well, dry the air to prevent freezing.
  by bengt
 
xerxes wrote:we have problem with air brake freezing and my questiones are :
1-what we can do in short time for solving problem.
2-what should we do for future for equiping loco against freezing.
1-Fill the air hose in the car behind the loco with about one litre 96 % alcohol [C2H5(OH)].
2-Fit a alcohol carburator in the air line behind the air dryer.
  by DutchRailnut
 
bengt wrote:
xerxes wrote:we have problem with air brake freezing and my questiones are :
1-what we can do in short time for solving problem.
2-what should we do for future for equiping loco against freezing.
1-Fill the air hose in the car behind the loco with about one litre 96 % alcohol [C2H5(OH)].
2-Fit a alcohol carburator in the air line behind the air dryer.
Wrong Wrong, addition of Alcohol to air systems is now a FRA offence.
The Neoprene seals and diaphrams in newer airvalves will deteriorate.
The fine is pretty high.

  by LCJ
 
I don't believe xerxes comes under FRA regulation.

  by DutchRailnut
 
Adding Alcohol even to a industrial engine will put that same alcohol in brake system of interchange cars, so still a bad idea.

  by LCJ
 
I don't believe xerxes is located in North America.

  by Klesse
 
As it was mentioned application of ethanol is now in contradiction with FRA and common sense as well, I would suggest you to use a conventional air dryer or more efficient, state of art and also cheaper plasma filters as long term solution, because there will be no chance of freezing when air RH is around 30% (less than 5% with plasma filters) but for interim following is prescribed:

1. Be sure spitters are working properly and loco drivers drain manually water content of air reservoirs before any dispatch. (Self actuating ones or constant time ones (activated by EBT) are far better than those activated by CCS.)

2. Relocate head light resistors in brake rack compartment and insulate the compartment carefully.

3. Application of cheap (200$ to 700$ each) general propose centrifugal filters to drain water content of air will be helpful.


With introduction of voodoo plasma filters, will be available in Europe market next June, there will be a revolution in air treatment industry. (They are service free and much cheaper than two columns regenerative dryers with the same capacity. I think conventional dryers will be extinct if the claims about plasma filter were true! )
I have a hard copy of voodoo catalogue in German, I didn't find any english reference on the internet! so far . I will add the link if I find it.

  by xerxes
 
[quote="Klesse"]As it was mentioned application of ethanol is now in contradiction with FRA and common sense as well, I would suggest you to use a conventional air dryer or more efficient, state of art and also cheaper plasma filters as long term solution, because there will be no chance of freezing when air RH is around 30% (less than 5% with plasma filters) but for interim following is prescribed:

1. Be sure spitters are working properly and loco drivers drain manually water content of air reservoirs before any dispatch. (Self actuating ones or constant time ones (activated by EBT) are far better than those activated by CCS.)

2. Relocate head light resistors in brake rack compartment and insulate the compartment carefully.

3. Application of cheap (200$ to 700$ each) general propose centrifugal filters to drain water content of air will be helpful.


With introduction of voodoo plasma filters, will be available in Europe market next June, there will be a revolution in air treatment industry. (They are service free and much cheaper than two columns regenerative dryers with the same capacity. I think conventional dryers will be extinct if the claims about plasma filter were true! )
I have a hard copy of voodoo catalogue in German, I didn't find any english reference on the internet! so far . I will add the link if I find it.[/quote]


thanks guys
all your leads were useful for me and throught this forum i got so many things that didnt know before i should say to dear lcj that i am not from usa meanwhile i am not so far . any way now i got what should we do interim and long term.and dear klesse i still wainting for more information about voodoo plasma filters it sounds to be nice .

  by LCJ
 
The only reason I mentioned the location was because of the FRA reference above. Welcome to the forum. We aim to be helpful.

  by bengt
 
Yesterday I talked to a Knorr Brake salesmen about alcohol in the airbrake systems.
There is no problems to use alcohol in Knorr KE brakes.
Knorr Brakes are also sold in the US but I do not know if they use the same kind of rubber as in UIC brake valves.
In Sweden we use air dryers and alcohol carburators as well in most locos.
Knorr recomend air dryers first and alcohol carburaters as a second device,
but not both devices at the same time.
However, air dryers and alcohol carburators conected in series have worked well for decades in cold winters.
Someone who can give a link to the AAR paper dealing with air brakes and alcohol?

  by Tom Tancula
 
Klesse

What can you tell me about these plasma filters? Do you have a web page link?

TNT

  by rrboomer
 
Xerxes:

What you can do for a quick fix is thaw out all the locomotive air drains and let the air blow until all traces of ice appear to be gone. Then close drain valve almost all the way, just leave a slight air blow at each drain, it doesn't have to be much. Leave the dran valves that way until temps
get above freezing. Any moisture in the air system will go to the lowest point, which will be out the drain.

Enginemen will need to check drains more often to ensure still have the slight air blow and yes, there will be a slight increase of air compressor cycles.

The above method is the way the steam guys did it long before "auto" drains came along.