Acela II (Avelia Liberty): Design, Production, Delivery, Acceptance

ExCon90 wrote: if you're driving you'll have to get something on the way, adding 30 to 45 minutes on a two-hour trip.

More likely they'll spend five minutes in a drive-thru lane or at a mini-mart along the way (clearly an option based on all the preceeding comments), something many people already do on the way to the train station and the rest seem to do at the station coffee carts.

I suspect very few people eat on trains by choice. Even if it's decent quality, you still end up paying a 30% or more premium over what you could have brought onboard yourself.

Before anyone brings up lines at airport food or coffee stands, that's different because they have a captive market thanks to the TSA bans on liquids....

rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:13 pmDoes anyone think PennDOT would pay for such additional expense? They cannot even pay for a cafe car.

It's not that PennDot can't pay for it, PennDot doesn't want to pay for it. Acela would be way too slow on the Keystone. Way too many curves.
If PennDot decided to pay for electrification to Pittsburg then Acela might be worth it. Maybe straighten some track while they are at it too.

eolesen wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:58 am

ExCon90 wrote: if you're driving you'll have to get something on the way, adding 30 to 45 minutes on a two-hour trip.

More likely they'll spend five minutes in a drive-thru lane or at a mini-mart along the way (clearly an option based on all the preceeding comments), something many people already do on the way to the train station and the rest seem to do at the station coffee carts.

I suspect very few people eat on trains by choice. Even if it's decent quality, you still end up paying a 30% or more premium over what you could have brought onboard yourself.

Before anyone brings up lines at airport food or coffee stands, that's different because they have a captive market thanks to the TSA bans on liquids....

Eating a good meal in a real dining car is worth the extra money. The scenery, sitting with nice strangers, and good food is a nice mix.

PHLSpecial wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:53 am

rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:13 pmDoes anyone think PennDOT would pay for such additional expense? They cannot even pay for a cafe car.

It's not that PennDot can't pay for it, PennDot doesn't want to pay for it. Acela would be way too slow on the Keystone. Way too many curves.
If PennDot decided to pay for electrification to Pittsburg then Acela might be worth it. Maybe straighten some track while they are at it too.

Isn't Acela a tilt train, designed to excel on curves? Or is that just Talgo.

PHLSpecial wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:53 am

rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:13 pmDoes anyone think PennDOT would pay for such additional expense? They cannot even pay for a cafe car.

It's not that PennDot can't pay for it, PennDot doesn't want to pay for it. Acela would be way too slow on the Keystone. Way too many curves.
If PennDot decided to pay for electrification to Pittsburg then Acela might be worth it. Maybe straighten some track while they are at it too.

PHL and RCT: In the late 1970s Conrail studied extending electrification across Pennsylvania from the Harrisburg area (Enola Yard was a focuspoint) across the Middle Division westward to Conway Yard (west of PGH along the Ohio River) during times of fuel shortages. When fuel became more plentiful Conrail decided to end use of their electrification altogether in the early 1980s. In the mid 1990s Amtrak looked into ending electric service on the Harrisburg Line west of the SEPTA commuter zone - Penndot stepped in to save and expand this service.

The route from HAR to PGH is about 250 miles (mile 104 to 353 from Philadelphia) and today owned by NS.
We will never see this line electrified in any of our lifetimes unless PA buys the route and is willing to spend billions of dollars to electrify this line - with just the Amtrak Pennsylvanian operating each way everyday.
Let's make sure that the PHL-HAR route remains electrified with its updated infrastructure...On topic the Acela trainsets may be an idea for one NYP-PHL-HAR round trip to test and see if this extra-fare service would be worthwhile for Amtrak and the Harrisburg Line's riders...MACTRAXX

With so many of the Keystone cab cars capped with a second motor, it’s a good thing Amtrak doesn’t need that ACS to run regionals today (during covid reductions). Perhaps Keystone is an outlet for the HHP cab cars?

If there are continual can car issues, and once the last of the stations receives their High Level platforms. As a stop gap, the conditions are favorable to seeing an Acela on NY based Keystone Service sets until the Siemens equipment is delivered.

PHLSpecial wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:53 am

rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:13 pmDoes anyone think PennDOT would pay for such additional expense? They cannot even pay for a cafe car.

It's not that PennDot can't pay for it, PennDot doesn't want to pay for it. Acela would be way too slow on the Keystone. Way too many curves.
If PennDot decided to pay for electrification to Pittsburg then Acela might be worth it. Maybe straighten some track while they are at it too.

Yeah, can't see it taking Horseshoe Curve at a cool 150mph......

Yup, would go as well as..

SUPERTRAIN, coming this fall to NBC

You'll have to tunnel a lot to do it, because you're going through mountains.

I don't know if Acela can do 150 on a curve, but it is a tilt train designed to handle curves at much higher speeds than conventional rail cars.

If PennDot decided to pay for electrification to Pittsburgh then Acela might be worth it. Maybe straighten some track while they are at it too.

When European railroads straighten curves they do it for something like 2 trains an hour over an 18-hour or so period; harder to justify for 2 trains a day.

According to a document read in the past. Amtrak considers the CAT from PHL - Harrisburg to be the most deteriorated of any of the CAT. That includes overhead. There were several projects planned with the funds just passed. See to remember all were in SEPTA service area. Power for the west CAT past the At Glenn 169Kv transmission line is about at present service. That may be reason some Keystones end up with diesels if there are power problems? Cannot remember for sure but the high voltage to the power station transformer was only 3 - 4 times that of the original CAT power of 11Kv. That would make it as I remember it was 44Kv high voltage???

If that is still true, then Acelas to HAR will need improvements to CAT and available power delivered.

I'm just curious, but why does PennDOT have to pay for the Acelas? Does MassDOT pay for the Acelas to Boston? Does Washington D.C. pay for the Acelas to there? Yes, I agree, it's unlikely that an Acela anything will run to Harrisburg without PennDOT, but why is that the only way? TGVs run on conventional track (not even 110mph) to reach lucrative destinations) so why can't the Acela operate on a higher if not high speed track?

PennDOT directly subsidizes all passenger services on the Harrisburg Line. The implication is that if using Acela trainsets is more expensive than using Amfleet trainsets, PennDOT would need to cover the difference in cost. Note that PennDOT has shown a reluctance to subsidize anything more than the most basic of services (e.g., no train on the line except the Pennsylanvian to Pittsburgh offers food services).

I understand that no state DOT directly subsidizes any existing Washington-Boston trains.

Unlike the NEC the Keystone line is state supported. So if Pennsylvania want more they pay for it.