• Acela II (Avelia Liberty): Design, Production, Delivery, Acceptance

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by eolesen
 

John_Perkowski wrote: I submit that if less than 20% of the miles in the Corridor are rated at Class 7 or greater, buying Avelia will have been an exercise in waste. The better use of money would have been to buy parcels of land that permit, with construction of new track alignments, upgrades of FRA classification for worked segments.
Yep. They could have been better off with that type of investment and simply running express services with Sprinters at a consistent 125mph... there's a lot to be said for having a standardized fleet.

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  by electricron
 
eolesen wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:03 pm
John_Perkowski wrote: I submit that if less than 20% of the miles in the Corridor are rated at Class 7 or greater, buying Avelia will have been an exercise in waste. The better use of money would have been to buy parcels of land that permit, with construction of new track alignments, upgrades of FRA classification for worked segments.
Yep. They could have been better off with that type of investment and simply running express services with Sprinters at a consistent 125mph... there's a lot to be said for having a standardized fleet.
How quickly we forget the impact on market share for the NEC on the introduction of Acela services???
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acela
"The high-speed operation occurs mostly along the 226 mi (364 km) route from Pennsylvania Station in New York City to Union Station in Washington, D.C., with a fastest scheduled time of 2 hours and 45 minutes and an average speed of 82.2 mph (132.3 km/h), including time spent at intermediate stops. Over this route, Acela and the Northeast Regional service captured a 75% share of air/train commuters between New York and Washington in 2011, up from 37% in 2000."

That's a doubling of the market share south of NYC.

"By 2005, Amtrak's share of the common-carrier market between New York and Boston had reached 40%, from 18% pre-Acela."

Again, a doubling of the market share north of NYC.

"Acela carried more than 3.4 million passengers in fiscal year 2016; second only to the slower and less expensive Northeast Regional, which had over 8 million passengers in FY 2016. Its 2016 revenue of US$585 million was 25% of Amtrak's total."

Just as a reminder, Amtrak ridership per pandemic in 2019 was around 33 million passengers nationally.
Just think about it, 10% of the national ridership earns 25% of all Amtrak earnings.

IMHO, Acela has been a total success! Why do you guys and girls wish to eliminate it?
  by photobug56
 
I think that some people don't get that having a 'special' train, sleek, nice looking (ignoring my opinion of the paint job on A2) gives you something that you look forward to as opposed to the antique Amfleet trains. And them being faster is attractive. Sure, some of the line badly needs work or replacement, but I know I prefer Acela to Amfleet. Though the Cafe is a truly bad joke.
  by eolesen
 
Running with 125 mile an hour capable locomotives and new Siemens cars with business class or chair cars would still be an improvement over pre-Acela services. And you wouldn't have a captive Fleet issue. No dedicated maintenance facilities, and probably better utilization.

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  by ExCon90
 
There's a lot to that. Back in the '70's when the Metroliners were new, there was a departure from 30th St. at (I think) 8 am for which passengers were lining up by 7:30, at which time the train was still on the other side of Wilmington. They would stand there while a Regional arrived and departed, with a New York arrival still ahead of the Metroliner. Didn't matter -- the name mattered; people wanted to say they took the Metroliner, and willingly put in for the expense.
  by west point
 
The slow sections are really harming the NEC for reducing travel time. Averaging travel time at present NYP<>WASH at about 80 MPH is cited here. Tere of course are the station stops. However, I expect that there are many locations on the NEC that have MAX speeds somewhat less than 80.
A very simplistic approach to this is to make certain assumptions. Take a 1 mile section with a slow order. If Amtrak can double the speed in that 1 mile section then 1 minute would be saved if going from 30 to 60. If going from 60 to 120 would save 30 seconds.

Now how are slowing and speeding up from that slow section figured? Is it figured at a rate of full braking without regenerative/dynamic braking? Maybe 1/2 rate of blended braking? Have no idea. Someone with access to braking and acceleration curves can give us an answer. A very unscientific WAG might mean 2 minutes of 30 to 60?

The main point is that the more the slowest section is upgraded to 160 the better. The distance (20miles?) from North PHL thru Frankford junction that has various speed reductions might give the most bang for the buck going to a MAX of 160 for Acela-2. What would be the cost? Real estate, removal of Haz Nat, then with actual construction. Then of course the 3 slower curves Trenton - Newark could also save some time.
  by STrRedWolf
 
west point wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:26 am The main point is that the more the slowest section is upgraded to 160 the better. The distance (20miles?) from North PHL thru Frankford junction that has various speed reductions might give the most bang for the buck going to a MAX of 160 for Acela-2. What would be the cost? Real estate, removal of Haz Nat, then with actual construction. Then of course the 3 slower curves Trenton - Newark could also save some time.
I agree that a lot of sections need to be rebuilt/sped up. Anything that is below 79 mph is unacceptable... with limited exceptions.

The current Hudson River tunnels at 60 MPH? Okay, they go to NYP and always stop. You can get away with that for a little longer... but it's hobbled by the Portal Bridge which has a 45 MPH limit. That has to be fixed. Oh, and down south, The B&P Tunnel at 30 MPH? No, even though BAL is there and it's an always-stop.

But if you can get everything up to 100 MPH minimum service? Even better.
  by MACTRAXX
 
WP: Answering your NEC mileage questions -
From a 1970s era Trenton-Philadelphia PC public timetable (*indicates closed and abandoned stations)
Penn Center (Suburban Station in Center City Philadelphia): 0.0 mile
30th Street Station: 1.0
North Philadelphia: 5.5
*Frankford Junction: 8.7 (Frankford Curve is in the 0.9 mile segment between FJ and Frankford)
*Frankford: 9.6
Bridesburg: 10.3
*Wissinoming: 11.1
Tacony: 12.2
Holmesburg Junction: 13.3
Torresdale: 15.8 (City/County of Philadelphia-Bucks County Line is just east of station)
*Andalusia: 16.8
Cornwells Heights: 17.9
Eddington: 19.1
Croydon: 20.8
Bristol: 23.6
Levittown (Tullytown): 26.9
Trenton, NJ: 33.3 (PA-NJ State Line is at the Delaware River)

There was proposal to straighten out the track at Frankford Junction in the 1979 Northeast Corridor Improvement
Project but was never acted on because of not acquiring the required real estate in that area from what I recall...

Other proposed alignments included the Elizabeth, NJ curve elimination with the 1979 plan and was never acted
upon because of securing the local property required at that location.

Does anyone currently have any idea when the first "Gator" (my nickname for the new Acela equipment) trainset
may be placed into regular service during 2022? MACTRAXX
  by STrRedWolf
 
MACTRAXX wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:41 pm Does anyone currently have any idea when the first "Gator" (my nickname for the new Acela equipment) trainset
may be placed into regular service during 2022? MACTRAXX
Acela-omnomnom.jpg
I dunno about "gator" but maybe the "Muncher"? ;)
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  by JimBoylan
 
MACTRAXX wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:41 pmThere was proposal to straighten out the track at Frankford Junction in the 1979 Northeast Corridor Improvement Project but was never acted on because of not acquiring the required real estate in that area from what I recall...
Pennsylvania RR had already sold off the needed land along East Erie Ave. before 1929. It was a very old proposal.
  by photobug56
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:10 pm
MACTRAXX wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:41 pm Does anyone currently have any idea when the first "Gator" (my nickname for the new Acela equipment) trainset
may be placed into regular service during 2022? MACTRAXX
Acela-omnomnom.jpg

I dunno about "gator" but maybe the "Muncher"? ;)
A2 as Jaws? Now that's a paint job I'd love! Eating planes, busses...
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