A mystery B&M photo, c.1918

"Images of Rail: Boston & Maine Locomotives" (Imagine not quotation marks but italics since that function still doesn't.) from Arcadia Press, 2002, shows the application of lens-mounted train numbers on pp. 50, 52, 62, 66, 69, 77, 78, and 84. While 3625 is a valid number for a P-2, 3719 was the highest number in the 3700's on the B&M, assuming accuracy on the part of the late Harry Frye on p.141 of his "Minuteman Steam: Boston & Maine Locomotives / 1911-1958." (Again, italics need be imagined.)
Another possibility for the train number might be "75" instead of "25." Divots on the print or a clipped intersection on the "7" plus the lower support rod on the headlight could account for what otherwise looks like a "2." Train 75 had a long and progressively slower and slower history on the Conn. River.
Amazon alleges it is shipping me an "Images of America" (See a pattern here?) book for Northampton, and maybe there can be some more information from that. The Northampton Historical Society does have on-line research assistance, but only after a $40 membership is secured, assuming I understood its website.

I'm not by anymeans convinced of the Northampton hypothesis. The hills do look like the view to to the east of town, but nothing else matches my knowledge of the area. I lived on Phillips place for a few years in my younger days and often climbed the embankment to cross the tracks to get to town passing the then abandoned station. It seems impossible that it was 30 years ago now.
I guess I really should stop speculating and swing by there to see if I can duplicate the view.

There are a few detail discrepancies about the engine -
* In none of the photos of P-2s (those without feedwater heaters) I can find, are there lamp irons at 3 oclock and 9 oclock on the smokebox front, but always higher.
* All of the P-2s I can find have numberboards attached to the headlight. this engine has none.

Are we 100 % sure it's B&M, or even in Mass for that matter ? CV ? Could it be a smaller road with engine no's. in the double digits ?

3rdrail wrote:Are we 100 % sure it's B&M, or even in Mass for that matter ? CV ? Could it be a smaller road with engine no's. in the double digits ?

no indeed. could still be any road anywhere.

however, the number on the headlight lens as train number, rather than engine number is fairly solid I think.

You can clearly see the forwardfacing brass number board , mounted atop the smoke box, like all the B&M P-2s had, even the ones with FW heaters.
This seems to be a common, though not universal B&M feature. In this photo http://sites.google.com/site/bostonandm ... %20005.jpg
you can see a brass engine numberboard (3200) and a train number on the headlight.
another example : http://sites.google.com/site/bostonandm ... team-1.jpg

Yes, I see your point. One of those engines has a "26" on it's headlight. Was that a B&M thing ? I have never noticed that on other anything. One possible way to track it down. If the schedule was generally on-time, which they probably were, you've got a fairly long set of shadows there. That indicates roughly between 6-8 AM or 3-5 PM, depending on the season and whether it's morning or afternoon. (I'd suggest PM.) The male in the station has a trenchcoat on but it's not raining. So, we know it's not summer. Probably Nov. - March. He also has a hat but every male wore a hat back then, but it's not a straw summer hat. How about getting a B&M timetable for that period, if possible, and find out where Train 25 was between those times. Most locations will probably be discarded immediately, but one or two might pop out at you.

As of 1916 (the only TT I can find), 25 was westbound at Northampton at 7:33 am.
Left Boston at 3:25, accommodation train, almost every stop.
here's a picture of Northampton Sta. around 1905. and, even if they built a new station, it doesn't look
like the place

Neat old photo of Northampton, but I'd guess it's at least ten years older than 1905. The current station and elevated right-of-way date from a grade separation project in 1896 that raised the B&M and NH tracks above street level and significantly changed the area, so the photo has to be pre-1896.

Very interesting! thanks for that bit of history, Mr. Nelligan.
I was completely baffled by Mr. Sullivan's photo of Northampton, because it certainly doesnt resemble the Northampton I know.

Here's my two cents worth. First off, to jaymac, I'd like to say in Harry Frye's defense, he WAS one of the foremost authority's on Boston & Maine steam power, and if he said that 3719 was the last number of the Pacific roster, then, that is etched in stone! One may easily look this information up using any B&M steam roster. With that off my chest, the reason there are no number indicators on the sides of the headlight, is because that one is an acetylene headlight, the B&M used them on their steam power from 1912 up until they started phasing them out right after World War I in 1918, if you look closely at the area between the bottom of the smokebox front and the pilot beam, you can see a portion of the acetylene tank that provided the gas for the headlight.

Dave- What would be the purpose of putting train numbers on a acetylene headlight's lens ? I would assume that when lit that the shear brightness of such a headlight would make such a number invisible, especially to a forward view. Was it a device used at a terminal only with headlight off to identify a train ?

Did my homework and found a postcard of the station that was there in 1909 (postmark).
I believe this shows the branch side of the station with, what is now Pearl St. to the right.
That would place our train on the other side of the canopied platform and one track out.
That would make the curve right and the posts could match. I'm no local expert
so leave the conclusions to others.
LS

After looking at the picture, I don't think its anywhere on the CT river live from Springfield to Brattleboro.

The long low building with the skylights reminds me of buildings I have seen in Chicopee but I have no idea if and where there was a platform in chicopee.

You said it was a picture from a scrap book are there any other pictures that might give clues as to where he was traveling to or from in that year? It might be a picture of the train he was departing on after taking a trip.

yes, thats Pearl st below to the right. and the hills are visible in the distance.
No big mill building with tall chimney anywhere to be seen,however.

by bmcdr » Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:40 pm

...to jaymac, I'd like to say in Harry Frye's defense, he WAS one of the foremost authority's on Boston & Maine steam power, and if he said that 3719 was the last number of the Pacific roster, then, that is etched in stone!

bmcdr-
It might have come across that way, but I wasn't trying to attack Harry. (I feel I can I can use his first name because we had talked a number of times at various B&MRRHS activities.) What I was doing was attempting to limit the length of the post. If, however, I had submitted something like "...assuming accuracy -- as I do -- on the part of Harry Frye...", that might have been less of an issue for those of us who hold his memory, the memory of his connection to the B&M, and the memory of his drive for accuracy -- to the point of sending out a two-sided addenda/errata sheet for his book -- as exemplary.
-jaymac

I would like to point out that, anyone who can access this forum, can also search "B&M Pacifics" or
"Harry Frye" and, educate themselves about basics like roster information and much much more.
The purpose of threads like this is to work out questions which are not already answered.
This was a good example of how "off topic" can kill a discussion.
Back to the question:
The picture of train 25 was taken at the farthest corner of the station, completely obscured in
the 1909 picture. The chimney might be behind the highest part of the roof. It might also have
been built in 1910. I did Google street level and Hawley St. is as completely re developed as
any I've seen so, no help there. I believe the picture was taken at Northampton because I
can't find anyplace else that fits as well but, admit, final proof is lacking, without a site
visit or local knowledge.
LS